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enter image description here

Here, $O$ is the center of mass of the unconstrained rigid bar: none of the points, including $O$, are affixed.

According to Salman Khan, due to $\vec{F}$ the bar will start to rotate about $O$.

However, according to @Asad, the rotation will not be about $O$.

Who is correct?

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    Do you agree that, in the absence of a net external force, if the unrestrained bar is rotating that the rotation has to be about the COM? – Bob D Mar 26 '22 at 14:24
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    Have you considered the motion as translation+rotation? – John Doty Mar 26 '22 at 14:29
  • @BobD You mean if only a couple acts on the bar? Then yes, I agree. – tryingtobeastoic Mar 26 '22 at 14:46
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    @tryingtobeastoic No, I mean if the force F was momentarily applied and then removed so that the bar is rotating in space without any net force on it, do you agree it would be rotating about its COM? – Bob D Mar 26 '22 at 14:54
  • @JohnDoty Yes, it can be viewed that way. We'll get a force of magnitude $|\vec{F}|$ acting at the center of mass in the direction of $\vec{F}$, and a couple, the pair of forces having a magnitude of $|\vec{F}|$. As the couple can be moved anywhere, we can move it so that the pair of forces are equidistant from the center of mass. Then it becomes clear that the rotation will be about the center of mass. Why is Asad diasgreeing then? – tryingtobeastoic Mar 26 '22 at 14:58
  • @JohnDoty Something like this. We can then move the couple such that the pair of forces are equidistant from the center of mass, and it becomes evident that the rotation will be about the center of mass. – tryingtobeastoic Mar 26 '22 at 15:00
  • @BobD Yes, I agree. Why is Asad disagreeing with me and Salman then? – tryingtobeastoic Mar 26 '22 at 15:22
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    @tryingtobeastoic I must confess that I don't follow Asad's reasoning. – Bob D Mar 26 '22 at 16:41
  • @BobD We just have to wait for John Alexiou to show up I guess. – tryingtobeastoic Mar 26 '22 at 17:09
  • Did my answer clear your question or is there something missing – tryst with freedom Mar 27 '22 at 05:11
  • @BobD "do you agree it would be rotating about its COM". I do not agree that it will be rotating about its COM, to the extent that it can be said to rotate about any unique point. Instead the instantaneous center of rotation will be to the left of the center of mass. – Asad Saeeduddin Mar 27 '22 at 11:08
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    Response to @Asad Saeeduddin comment. For a particle; torque and angular momentum depend on point chosen; same is true for a system of particles. You can evaluate the net torque and net angular momentum about any point for a system of particles. We typically choose the center of mass as the point for unconstrained motion. OP asked me to address this; I did so in my updated response. All this is discussed in physics mechanics texts; Mechanics by Symon provides a particularly detailed, clear development. – John Darby Apr 04 '22 at 12:58

9 Answers9

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Answer: No

Explanation:

A bar that has a non-zero net force applied to it will always have its center of mass translate. This is due to Newton's second law which states the motion of the center of mass depends on the net force on a body only.

Additionally, If there is a net torque about the center of mass (just as in this case), the bar is going to rotate also. To make the point of rotation the center of mass then there must be zero net force. Any rigid body with a pure torque applied (force couple) is going to rotate, and since the center of mass is not going to translate (zero net force), the center of rotation is the COM.

Note: By definition the center of rotation is the point on the body (or the extended frame) that does not translate.

In summary: Net force relates to the translational motion of the center of mass, and net torque relates to the rotation of the object about the center of mass.

In this case, with a single force applied offset from the center of mass, the result is the general case of rotation of the bar and motion of the center of mass.

fig

The center of rotation is going to be on the other side of the center of mass from where the force is applied. For example, with point C above the instantaneous rotation center, the following relationship is true

$$ OC = \frac{\kappa^2}{OB} $$

where $\kappa = \sqrt{\frac{I}{m}}$ is the radius of gyration of the object. For a straight bar $\kappa^2 = \frac{\ell^2}{12}$.

Notice that the closer the force is to the center of mass, the smaller $OB$ is, the larger $OC$ gets. At the limit when $OB=0$, the bar will translate (or rotate about a point at infinity).

John Alexiou
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  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – Chris Mar 30 '22 at 02:20
  • Why wouldn't the bar rotate about the COM where its moment of inertia, which is a measure of the bar's resistance to a change in rotational motion, is a minimum and therefore about which its angular acceleration would be a maximum? – Bob D Mar 31 '22 at 21:11
  • @BobD - That is true if a pure torque was applied (force couple with zero net force). Then the body would rotate about the COM, which happens to be where MMOI is minimal. But since there is a non-zero force applied, the COM also moves and so the combined motion makes the body rotate about a point away from the center of mass. – John Alexiou Mar 31 '22 at 21:58
  • Yes John I realize that the COM undergoes linear acceleration, but isn't the angular acceleration independent of the linear acceleration? When I calculate the angular acceleration at all the points shown due to F, I get the maximum angular acceleration when the rotation is about the COM. Wouldn't you reach the same conclusion? – Bob D Mar 31 '22 at 22:20
  • @BobD The question was about the rotation center, which by definition is the point with no linear acceleration. In the answer I designated that as point C – John Alexiou Apr 01 '22 at 00:16
  • Now you're losing me. Why would a rotation center have to be one having no linear acceleration.? No need to answer. I'm probably missing something. – Bob D Apr 01 '22 at 00:21
  • @BobD actually the rotation center has no linear velocity, but starting from rest, it also means no linear acceleration. – John Alexiou Apr 01 '22 at 00:40
  • I'm looking at this from the standpoint that $F$ is continuously applied perpendicular to the bar. So I'm not sure how the "instant center of rotation" applies. – Bob D Apr 01 '22 at 01:25
  • @BobD - for some time after $t>0$ when the force is applied, point C is going to remain stationary. To be exact, if an impulse is applied off center at a distance $d$ from the center of mass, the instant center of rotation is going to be a distance $c = \kappa^2/d$ on the other side of the COM. – John Alexiou Apr 01 '22 at 12:38
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    @JohnAlexiou The OP never described exactly what F is. That may be the problem here. I'm treating it as a continuously applied force always perpendicular to the bar, like a rocket thruster fixed to the end. You're treating it as an impulse. Someone else may be thinking of it as aa continuously applied force in the vertical direction. – Bob D Apr 01 '22 at 13:44
3

This answer assumes the bar is unconstrained as you stated in your question; specifically, the only forces are gravity down at the center of mass $O$ and $F$ up applied at point $B$ at the right end of the bar as shown in your figure.

The center of mass of the unconstrained body will accelerate if the vector sum of the external forces, here gravity down and the applied force up, is not zero. The unconstrained bar will rotate with an increasing angular momentum if there is a net torque due to the force of gravity down and the applied force up. Remember that torque depends on the point taken about which the torque is evaluated. For motion of an unconstrained rigid body, the point used for evaluating the rotational motion is almost always taken to be the center of mass of the body, and in that sense the rotation is about the point $O$, the center of mass, in your question.

The translational motion is given by $m\vec a_{CM} = \vec F_{ext}$ where $\vec a_{CM}$ is the acceleration of the center of mass, $m$ is the mass of the bar, and $\vec F_{ext}$ is the net applied external force. Here, $ma_{CM} = F - mg$ where $a_{CM}$ is taken as positive up, $F$ is the force up applied at the end of the bar, and $g$ is the acceleration of gravity downward.

You can describe the rotational motion with respect to any point $Q$ in the body, but this is easiest when $Q$ is taken as the center of mass of the body, in which case (as stated in elementary physics textbooks) $\vec \tau_{CM} = {d \vec L_{CM} \over dt}$, where $\vec \tau_{CM}$ is the net external torque about the center of mass and $\vec L_{CM}$ is the angular momentum about the center of mass; this is true even if the center of mass is accelerating. If $Q$ is not taken as the center of mass, the relationship to be solved is more complicated. See a good textbook on intermediate/advanced mechanics such as Mechanics, by Symon, for the details.

The total motion is best described as: (a) translation of the center of mass with (b) rotation about the center of mass. This motion can be evaluated using the relationships previously discussed.

If the body is constrained, for example by a force keeping the left end $A$ in your diagram fixed, the motion is best described as (a) translation of the center of mass with (b) rotation about the fixed point.

The above discussion assumes that you, the observer, are in an inertial reference frame. If you yourself are accelerating, then fictitious forces and torques must be considered. Again, see a textbook such as Mechanics by Symon for more details.

John Darby
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  • Why is it important to consider a force of gravity here? Wouldn't the analysis be simpler if we assumed the bar was in space? – tryingtobeastoic Mar 27 '22 at 04:55
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    Sure, you can simplify the problem with that assumption, but most practical applications deal with the effects of gravity. The approach I outlined is applicable in general for any number of external forces (vector summed in $ \vec F_{ext}$) with their torques summed about the center of mass (vector summed in $\vec \tau_{CM})$. – John Darby Mar 27 '22 at 05:35
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    @JohnDarby "If the body is constrained, for example by a force keeping the left end $A$ in your diagram fixed, the motion is best described as (a) translation of the center of mass with (b) rotation about the fixed point". How do you see the COM undergoing translational motion?. I only see it rotating about A. – Bob D Mar 28 '22 at 14:07
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    Good comment. In general, translational motion is defined as motion where "the axes of the reference frame rigidly attached to the object always remain parallel to the axes of the reference frame of the observer (motion is not necessarily in a straight line)". [e.g., Halliday, Resnick] So the motion is translation of the body by movement of the center of mass due to the net external force (with no rotation); then rotational motion is considered, typically about the center of mass for unconstrained motion, or about the fixed point for constrained motion. – John Darby Mar 28 '22 at 14:59
  • Sir, my understanding of torque is poor, so if my comment is wrong, please overlook it. "where $\vec{τ}_{CM}$ is the net external torque about the center of mass."- you said this. In other words, you agree that there can be torque about a point. However, @Asad said that "torque about a point is meaningless." Why is he diasgreeing with you? – tryingtobeastoic Apr 03 '22 at 10:15
  • We evaluate net torque and net angular momentum for a system of particles, of which a rigid body is a special case, about a point. [Symon, Mechanics] You can select any point. For an unconstrained body, that point is typically (but not required to be) taken as the center of mass, because the relationship between net torque and net angular momentum is simple even if the center of mass is accelerating. For details see the first part of my answer to https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/701120/what-is-the-centripetal-force-when-a-bar-rotates-about-its-center-of-mass – John Darby Apr 03 '22 at 11:00
2

I didn't know the formula used by John Alexiou, so I tried a way to prove it.

If we suppose that there is a inertial point C in the bar, the torque calculated from this point is:

$$T = I\alpha \implies F.(CB) = I\frac{a_b}{(CB)}$$

Where $I$ is the moment of inertia of the bar around C. The COM is accelerating: $$F = ma_o \implies I\frac{a_b}{(CB)^2} = ma_o$$

But the acceleration of the points of the bar must follow a proportionality: $$\frac{a_o}{a_b} = \frac{(CO)}{(CB)} \implies I\frac{a_b}{(CB)^2} = ma_b\frac{(CO)}{(CB)} \implies \frac{I}{m} = (CB)(CO)$$

The moment of inertia around C for a thin bar must be calculated by integration:

$$I = m(CO)^2 + m\frac{l^2}{12}$$

And as $$(CB) = (CO) + \frac{l}{2}$$

we get the same answer of John Alexiou for the situation of the drawing: $$(CO) = \frac{l}{6}$$

2

After some useful conversations with @Asad, I think this question is ill-posed, in the sense that it can be answered in different ways depending on one's point of view.

The one invariant statement that everyone should agree on is that the motion is not purely a rotation about the center of mass, nor is is purely a translation. At this point, you can make different statements depending on how you interpret the question.

After some discussions with @Asad, I think his point of view (which is reasonable) is that this question is asking whether the motion is a pure rotation about the center of mass. Then, the answer is no. The motion is a pure rotation about the center of rotation, which is a point on the rod which is not moving at all, at least instantaneously. One can say the motion of the rod is undergoing a pure rotation about this point, instantaneously. From this point of view, the equations of motion of the rod are irrelevant for answering the question "what point is the rod rotating around." The question is purely kinematic and geometrical, and should be answered in those terms.

Another point of view (which is the way I would tend to interpret the question, and I think some others in the comments) is that even though the question is, on its face, just about what the rod is doing at the instant the force is applied, in physics we are usually interested in how to solve the dynamical equations of motion for the rod. When we solve for the motion of a freely rotating rigid body, it is useful to decompose the motion into a translation of the center of mass, and a rotation about the center of mass. This decomposition simplifies the equations of motion for the rod. If we perform this decomposition, then the motion is a combination of a translation of the center of mass, and a rotation about the center of mass. The motion of the bar is not simply a translation; there is some component of "rotation about the center of mass" in this decomposition.

To summarize, I would say the answer to the question in the title, "will the bar rotate about the center of mass?", depends a bit on how you interpret the English language. Everyone should agree that the bar will not just rotate about the center of mass, nor will the motion simply be a translation of the bar. Beyond that, it is correct to say both

  • "the bar instantaneously rotates about the center of rotation, which is not the center of mass in this example" (which might make you say "no" to the question in the title), and
  • "the bar moves in a combination of translation of the center of mass and rotation about the center of mass" (which might make you say "yes").
Andrew
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    This is a good answer, but the paragraph on invariance is wrong (or at least appears to be). There is no inertial (non-accelerating) frame of reference in which the center of mass is the instantaneous center of rotation (given an eccentric application of force as in the question). In all inertial reference frames, an uncoupled application of force will cause the center of mass to linearly accelerate. – Asad Saeeduddin Mar 28 '22 at 06:34
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    @AsadSaeeduddin I added a clarification that I intended to talk about reference frames after the force had been applied. – Andrew Mar 28 '22 at 11:31
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    Actually I just deleted the paragraph. Upon reflection I think it's just a distraction. – Andrew Mar 28 '22 at 12:04
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I want to look at @JohnAlexiou’s answer in a slightly different way and it all hinges on what you understand by the centre of rotation.
I hope that he does not mind me using his diagram?

Suppose that the rod is at rest and then a force is applied on it as shown in the diagram below.

enter image description here

A way of analysing this system (the rod) is to say that the system is under the action of a force $F$ upwards whose line of action is through the centre of mass $O$ and an anticlockwise couple $F\, l$ where $l$ is the length of $AB$.

What this means is that all parts of the rod undergo a vertical acceleration give by $F=m\, a$ where $m$ is the mass of the rod.
At the same time all parts of the rod undergo a rotational acceleration, $\alpha$ given by $F\,l = I_{\rm O} \,\alpha$ where $I_{\rm O}$ is the moment of the rod about its centre of mass, $\dfrac{m\,l^2}{12}$.
This means that the section of the rod $OB$ undergoes an upward linear acceleration of a value which depends on the distance from the centre on mass whilst the section $OA$ undergoes a downward linear acceration.
The magnitude of the linear acceleration due to the rotation at a distance $x$ from the centre of mass being $x\,\alpha$.

Now somewhere to the left of the centre of mass the upward linear acceleration of the rod due to force $F$ is equal to the downward linear acceleration of the rod due to the couple.
So the linear acceleration at that point in the rod is zero - the equivalent of @JohnAlexiou’s definition of centre of rotation which was the center of rotation is the point on the body (or the extended frame) that does not translate.

$F=m\,a = \dfrac{I_{\rm O}\alpha}{x}\Rightarrow x = \dfrac{l}{6}$.

Farcher
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  • Sir, I must ask you a question unrelated to this answer. It's related to the previous discussion the three of us had (Me, you, BobD). Suppose, I have a rigid and uniform bar. The bar is pinned/constrained at $A$. Now, if $\vec{F}$ acts on the bar, there will be a reaction force at A, which is $\vec{F_A}$. Now, BobD asked you if $|\vec{F}|=|\vec{F_A}|$ and if $\vec{F}$ and $\vec{F_A}$ constitute a couple or not. You said yes (apparently, you have deleted that comment). Now, my question is, if $\vec{F}$ and $\vec{F_A}$ constitute a couple, then the bar... – tryingtobeastoic Mar 31 '22 at 13:13
  • ...will just start to rotate about the COM. But that's not the case here. The bar rotates about A, not about the COM as the bar is pinned at A. How do you reconcile the two facts? (I personally think that $F_A<F$ and the instant center of rotation is A. See the discussion Asad and BobD had). – tryingtobeastoic Mar 31 '22 at 13:17
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    I will attempt to answer your question when I finish my very long journey. – Farcher Mar 31 '22 at 13:20
  • Of course, sir. Have a safe and enjoyable journey! – tryingtobeastoic Mar 31 '22 at 13:20
  • I have now added to my answer for the left hand end of the rod as a pivot. – Farcher Apr 01 '22 at 03:23
  • Thanks for adding the edit, sir! – tryingtobeastoic Apr 02 '22 at 03:02
  • You defined $L = OB$, and the formula for $I_0$ is valid if $L$ is AB, isn't it? – Claudio Saspinski Apr 04 '22 at 19:32
  • @ClaudioSaspinski Very many thanks for pointing out my error. I will make the correction when I can. – Farcher Apr 04 '22 at 20:04
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Asad is peculiarly defining the center of rotation as the point on the body that isn't moving, and in this case there is such a point immediately following an impulsive application of force. But, of course, that point isn't fixed in the unconstrained body, and doesn't generally exist. Thus, we don't normally use this definition in unconstrained motion. But if you have an axle...

John Doty
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  • Is your answer still in the editing process? It seems unfinished. – tryingtobeastoic Mar 26 '22 at 15:49
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    Physics is unfinished ツ – John Doty Mar 26 '22 at 15:50
  • This is pretty much how "center of rotation" is always defined in engineering problems. If one doesn't assume that the point "isn't moving" (or more precisely, linearly accelerating), it renders the question completely trivial: any point whatsoever is a valid answer. The "instantaneous center of rotation" goes by many other names: "instantaneous center of zero velocity", "instant center", etc, perhaps some of these might be more familiar to you – Asad Saeeduddin Mar 27 '22 at 10:57
0

To my understanding, your question is flawed. If a single force is applied to a rigid body under the influence of no other forces, either:

  1. The line of action of the force passes through the center of mass, causing a pure translation and no rotation
  2. The line of action of force does not pass through the center of mass, in which case you end up with a pure rotation about an axis which does not pass through the center of mass. In other words the instantaneous axis of zero velocity induced by a single force can never be the center of mass.

If you apply an eccentric force, the center of mass of the body will undergo a linear acceleration, and the body itself will undergo an angular acceleration. In a fixed reference frame, this can be viewed as a pure rotation about a certain point, but this point will never be the center of mass of the body.

Source

The whole answer is misleading in my opinion. The question of whether an object is rotating or not depends on what point you ask it of. It makes sense to ask if an object is rotating about a point, in the answer I've quoted, it's implicitly taken that it is rotating about COM. A similar point is mentioned in this answer about torque I wrote.

But, this issue is there in many physics books. The motivation comes naturally when we try to extend newton's laws from point-particles to massive bodies.

"Newton's laws are applied to bodies which are idealized as single point masses,[19] in the sense that the size and shape of the body are neglected to focus on its motion more easily. This can be done when the line of action of the resultant of all the external forces acts through the center of mass of the body. In this way, even a planet can be idealized as a particle for analysis of its orbital motion around a star."- wiki

To extend it to a rigid body, we can do it with help of chalses theorem.

Chasles’ theorem asserts that it is always possible to represent an arbitrary displacement of a rigid body by a translation of its center of mass plus a rotation around its center of mass. pg-280 , Kleppner and Kolenkow 2nd Ed

We can just take the body to be a point particle for the translation part and use torques about COM to deal with the rotation part.

This link has more details about extending newton's laws to massive bodies

-1

The following, somewhat alternative, approach is offered to show that the rotation of the bar will be about the COM. It is based on the fact that translational and rotational motion are independent of each other.

We assume the force $F$ is continually applied perpendicular to the end of the bar at point B. An example would be a bar in space with a rocket thruster fixed at point B. Given that, we examine the motion of the bar when it is restrained at various points, where the motion of all points on the bar is purely rotational. We then propose that the only change in the motion of the bar when the restraints are removed should be the addition of the translational acceleration of the COM.

If the rod were constrained by a frictionless pin at any of the points in your diagram then the rod would rotate about that point. For example, if the rod were pinned at point A in FIG 1 below we know that the force $F$ applied at $B$ results in a torque about A of $\tau=FL$ where $L$ is the length of the bar. But we also know that if A cannot move, there has to be is a reaction force $F_{A}$ at A as shown in FIG 1 that is always equal and opposite to the applied force $F$. Or, $F_{A}=-F$.

The combination of the reaction force $F_A$ at A and the applied force F, which constitute two equal and opposite parallel forces, can be considered a force couple $M$ where $M=FL$ and $L$ is the length of the bar. A force couple causes pure rotation without translation. And that is in fact what happens here because all other points C, O, D, and B rotate about A but none of the points, including point O (the COM), undergoes translational motion. The same situation would exist if the bar were pinned at points C, O, D and B, except that the magnitude of the force couple $M$ will be different as shown in the figures below.

The figures below assume, for convenience, that the adjacent designated points on the bar are all separated by a distance of one fourth the length of the bar. Note that the average value of the force couples $M$ for the five pinned points equals the value for the couple of the bar pinned at the COM shown in FIG 3, or $M_{ave}=FL/2$. Instead of the five points shown, we can consider an infinite number of equally spaced points with the same result. This observation seems to align with the statement that a rigid body will rotate about the COM because that's where its moment of inertia is a minimum.

Finally, since translational motion is independent of rotational motion, it is suggested that if the constraints are removed one would expect that the only effect on the motion of the bar would be to include translational acceleration of its COM and that the "average" rotation of the bar would still be about the COM.

Hope this helps.

enter image description here

Bob D
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  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – Buzz Mar 27 '22 at 17:47
  • Sir, under Asad's answer, Andrew and Asad had a discussion. You might find that discussion interesting. – tryingtobeastoic Mar 28 '22 at 05:10
  • Also, you might find Andrew's answer interesting. – tryingtobeastoic Mar 28 '22 at 05:16
  • Sir, I had a question about figure 1: $\vec{F}$ and $\vec{F_A}$ constitute a couple. We know that a couple causes a rigid body to rotate about its center of mass. Why is the bar rotating about A then? – tryingtobeastoic Mar 28 '22 at 12:06
  • @tryingtobeastoic Yes a couple on a free body causes rotation about the COM, but not if the body is restrained. Couples are also used in statics where an object is completely restrained. Here we have an object that is partially restrained, kind of a hybrid situation. I think that’s what’s making my answer controversial. Because of that I am considering deleting it. I did say at the outset I was offering an alternative approach. – Bob D Mar 28 '22 at 12:35
  • Sir, please do not delete your answer just because it is controversial. If, however, you think that your answer is wrong, you may delete it. – tryingtobeastoic Mar 28 '22 at 12:44
  • "Yes a couple on a free body causes rotation about the COM, but not if the body is restrained."- sir, are there any forces acting on the bar other than $\vec{F}$ and $\vec{F_A}$? If the answer is no, then we can forget that the restraint/pin even exists, and we can treat the bar as if it's unconstrained. I can't see how the scenario in figure 1 is any different from a scenario where the couple acts on the same (unconstrained) bar. Sir, could you please point out to me where I am going wrong? – tryingtobeastoic Mar 28 '22 at 13:02
  • @tryingtobeastoic Do you agree there needs to be a component of the force that the pin exerts on the bar that is equal and opposite to $F$ in order for rotation and no translation of the bar? – Bob D Mar 28 '22 at 13:23
  • @BobD I'm not convinced; however, for the sake of argument, I will agree, sir. – tryingtobeastoic Mar 28 '22 at 13:35
  • @BobD In other words, I agree, sir. Please pose the rest of your argument so that I can understand your position better, sir. – tryingtobeastoic Mar 28 '22 at 13:46
  • @tryingtobeastoic If you are not convinced that unless $F$ is countered by another external force that prevents translational motion of pinned bar, there will be translational motion, I guess we can go no further. Whether or not one calls the combination of the forces a "couple", which I acknowledge may be an issue, is another matter. Regarding deleting my answer it is not because I think it is wrong (none of the comments I've gotten convinces me so), but because it appears it has not been helpful to you. – Bob D Mar 28 '22 at 13:47
  • @tryingtobeastoic Looks like our comments crossed as I answered your first comment before seeing the second. – Bob D Mar 28 '22 at 13:54
-2

John Alexiou has a great answer above, so I'm not going to reiterate what he said in too much detail.

I will note though that natural language can be confusing sometimes. Suppose someone shows you some planar displacement of a rigid body, and asks you:

What point did the body rotate about?

One way to answer the question is: "all of them". Any given rigid motion can be decomposed into a rotation about some arbitrarily chosen point and some translation.

Needless to say, this is kind of a pointless answer. Of course, in some other hypothetical question you might be given an arbitrary point (say, the center of mass) and asked to interpret a given rigid motion as the composition of a rotation about said point with some translation that you're required to find. The point is that there is nothing special about the center of mass under this interpretation, you could put your finger literally anywhere on the page and that would be a correct answer.

Another way to interpret the question is: which (if any) point is the motion a pure rotation about? In other words:

Find a point so that, if the point was attached to the rigid body, and you (an infinitesimal planar being) were standing on it, you would spin around, but not move

Now we have a more interesting answer: for any motion that is not a pure translation, there is always a unique such point in the plane. In fact, if one takes a projective geometry perspective, there is always such a point, since we can interpret even pure translations as rotations "about infinity".

So, returning to your question, we can take the second interpretation, and ask:

Under the influence of a point force that is not directed at the center of mass, which point (if attached to the bar) would start spinning at a different rate, but not start moving away from its position at a different rate

This second clause crucially disqualifies the center of mass (as explained in John Alexiou's excellent answer above) and (depending on the parameters of the problem), uniquely specifies some point to the left of the CoM as the solution.

  • I downvoted because I think this answer is confusing. It's completely standard to decompose rigid body motion into a translation and a rotation about the center of mass. The center of mass is not an arbitrary point. Using it simplifies the equations. See, eg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_mass#Linear_and_angular_momentum. – Andrew Mar 27 '22 at 22:18
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    I understand that you can find a point that is instantaneously at rest and define this to be the center of rotation at some instant in time, and that this point won't be the center of mass in general. I think this is an interesting point. But I think it's confusing to imply that there is no value in decomposing a rigid body motion as a translation and rotation about the center of mass. Such a decomposition is done all the time and is useful. – Andrew Mar 27 '22 at 22:30
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    @Andrew This is a complete non-sequitur. It is standard to decompose rigid body motion into a translation and rotation, but rigid body motion is a kinematic phenomenon. and has nothing to do with mass or how it is distributed. Mass or its center doesn't show up in the decomposition of an acceleration at all. The question is "which point (singular!) does the body rotate about". To the extent that the question has any unique answer, and to the extent that this question has a standard answer in engineering problems, the answer is the instant center of rotation. – Asad Saeeduddin Mar 28 '22 at 01:25
  • @Andrew You've linked to a passage about the dynamics of rigid bodies. The distribution of mass of a rigid body is material to figuring out the relevant linear and angular accelerations induced by a system of forces, but it is completely irrelevant in determining the answer to kinematic questions such as "which point is a body rotating about?" This is why it's a non-sequitur. I don't have a reference for you off hand but pick up a book on any subject involving the kinematics of moving mechanisms (e.g. linkages or autonomous robots) and look for "instant{aneous} center of rotation/velocity". – Asad Saeeduddin Mar 28 '22 at 02:50
  • To summarize this, if you draw any vector field associated with the kinematics of a rigid body, you won't see the center of mass anywhere on it. You will however see the instant center of zero velocity. – Asad Saeeduddin Mar 28 '22 at 02:53
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    Sorry I deleted that since I was doing a bit more research. Anyway I don't understand why you are choosing this hill to die on, it seems like a boring semantic argument. The rotation about the center of mass is used to derive the Euler equations for a freely rotating body, see eg Tong 3.3 or Lecture 29 of this MIT course – Andrew Mar 28 '22 at 02:54
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    Anyway, agree to disagree I guess. My takeaway is that decomposing the motion into a translation and rotation about the center of mass for a freely rotating body is a useful thing to do. – Andrew Mar 28 '22 at 02:55
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    @Andrew You keep linking to that section, but as I said before, that passage is about the dynamics of a rigid body. You can't just conflate dynamics and kinematics and then handwave it away as "it's all just semantics man". I don't understand what the point of being on here or talking about any of this is in that case. If someone asks what point a planar body is rotating about, the question has a well defined, useful answer (i.e. there is a such point). That point is not the center of mass in this situation. That's basically the long and the short of it. – Asad Saeeduddin Mar 28 '22 at 03:00
  • Actually the question was "will the bar rotate about the center of mass or not." It seems to me that if you really want to take the point of view that we need to very carefully separate kinematics from dynamics, your "boring" answer that "the body rotates around any point so it also rotates about the center of mass" is a perfectly fine answer. Anyway, I understand your point now, so I won't downvote, but I just don't agree we need to be so literal about dividing kinematics and dynamics. It is meaningful and useful to talk about rotation about the center of mass for a freely rotating body. – Andrew Mar 28 '22 at 03:04
  • Well, looks like I can't undo the downvote unless the answer is edited. – Andrew Mar 28 '22 at 03:05
  • @Andrew "It is meaningful and useful to talk about rotation about the center of mass for a freely rotating body". I'm trying to communicate something here, but I don't think I'm doing a good job. Let me try a different formulation: the angular momentum of a rigid body with uniform density is uniformly distributed throughout the body. If the body is rotating, every point is rotating "the same amount" (including the center of mass). IOW the curl of the vector field associated with the motion is featureless and uniform. To get any useful answer, one must ask "what point is only rotating". – Asad Saeeduddin Mar 28 '22 at 03:07
  • It's fine, dw about downvotes – Asad Saeeduddin Mar 28 '22 at 03:07
  • I understand what you're saying. You're saying that purely kinematically, a rotation should be defined as motion about a fixed point. That's fine, and a reasonable point of view. Where I disagree is saying this is the only reasonable point of view. If you want to dynamically solve for the rotation of a free body, it is useful to decompose the motion into translation of the center of mass, and rotation about the center of mass. I understand your interpretation of this problem is that it is a purely kinematical question, (...) – Andrew Mar 28 '22 at 03:18
  • (...) and we shouldn't allow ourselves to be influenced by arguments from dynamics to answer the question. My point of view is that this is physics, and ultimately we are always interested in solving a dynamical equation; we want to understand why and how the body will rotate. So I find it useful to talk about the COM decomposition in this question. I don't think either of us is right or wrong, but I disagree if you think my point of view is wrong. – Andrew Mar 28 '22 at 03:18
  • @Asad Sir, I found an apparent contradiction in your discussion with BobD. I messaged you the question in chat. If you have time, could you please look into it? – tryingtobeastoic Apr 02 '22 at 03:06