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Let $A$ be a finite set of real numbers. Is it always the case that $|AA+A| \geq |A+A|$?

My first instinct is that this is obviously true, and there is a one-line proof which I am foolishly overlooking. Can anyone provide one? Of course, any proof would be welcome! Any partial results would also be of interest.

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    If $A={0,1}$, then $AA=A$. So, one must assume something like $|A|\ge 3$. – Seva Apr 27 '15 at 10:14
  • Given the comments above, could you please align the question in the title and in the body that seem slightly different. –  Apr 27 '15 at 10:41
  • Yes, thanks Seva and quid. I have changed the title of the thread to match the non-strict inequality in the body of the question. – Oliver Roche-Newton Apr 27 '15 at 10:57
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    What is $AA$? ${a^2 : a\in A}$? Is it standard notation? – Federico Poloni Apr 27 '15 at 11:19
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    Federico Poloni, $AA$ denotes the product set of $A$, and so $AA:={ab:a,b \in A}$. The notation is standard in the field of sum-product estimates, but I can certainly see the ambiguity. The set you mention in your comment is sometimes denoted as $A^{(2)}$. – Oliver Roche-Newton Apr 27 '15 at 11:25
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    Why not ask the question for complex numbers even? – Yaakov Baruch Apr 27 '15 at 12:27
  • @YaakovBaruch, good point. I cannot see any obvious reason why the same inequality would fail for complex numbers. – Oliver Roche-Newton Apr 27 '15 at 12:33
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    The claim is not true if you replace sets of real numbers with sets of $n\times n$ real matrices for any $n\geq2$. Generalizing is interesting, but you can only go so far. – Joonas Ilmavirta Apr 27 '15 at 12:50
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    Is there even a case where $|aA+A|<|A+A|$ for $a\ne 0$? – Yaakov Baruch Apr 27 '15 at 13:10
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    The claim for subsets of the integers holds, and follows from this MO question: http://mathoverflow.net/questions/168844/sum-and-product-estimate-over-integers-rationals-and-reals – Lucia Apr 27 '15 at 14:04
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    @YaakovBaruch the idea is good but at least for $a=-1$ there are examples. In fact this question, that is the question of sets with less differences than sums, got study in recent years. –  Apr 27 '15 at 14:21
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    @quid can you please give a link or explain an example? thanks! – Vladimir Dotsenko Apr 27 '15 at 16:12
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    @VladimirDotsenko Let $A$ be 6 generic real numbers. Then $|A+A|$ is 21 (15 distinct pairs, 6 sums $a+a$) while $|A-A|$ is 16 (15 distinct pairs and 0). Taking (Cartesian) products of $A$ gives arbitrarily large sets where $|A-A|/|A| \ll |A+A|/|A|$ (since the doubling constant of a product is the product of doubling constants). I believe a generic projection could be used to send the product sets back into the reals. – Brendan Murphy Apr 27 '15 at 16:44
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    @BrendanMurphy. Why do you mean by distinct pairs? $a-b$ and $b-a$ are distinct numbers. – Yaakov Baruch Apr 27 '15 at 17:16
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    @YaakovBaruch: From Daniel Glasscock's MS thesis (https://people.math.osu.edu/glasscock.4/MSThesis.pdf): The set ${-7,-5,-4,-3,0,4,5,7}$ has 26 sums and 25 differences. It has the smallest diameter and the fewest number of elements of all MSTD sets in the integers, and all 8-element MSTD sets are affinely equivalent to it. Reference to Hegarty's paper Acta Arith. 130 (2007), 61-77. – GH from MO Apr 27 '15 at 17:32
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    @VladimirDotsenko an explicit example that contains $-1$ would be ${-1,1,2,3,6,10,11,12}$ (which is just the set that GH mentions shifted). The paper I would have mentioned but GH's reference is more recent and quotes this one. –  Apr 27 '15 at 18:47
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    It seems plausible that estimates giving a lower bound for $|A+ \lambda A|$ or $|A+B|$ in terms of $|A+A|$ would be helpful here, but the best one I've found is by Ruzsa calculus, which gives $|AA||A+A| \leq |A+AA|^2$, which is not helpful at all because it is only useful when $|AA| \geq |A+A|$, and then the identity $|AA+A| \geq |AA|$ already solves the problem. Are there better estimates of this type? – Will Sawin Apr 27 '15 at 18:54
  • Erdos result on the size of multiplication table seems to indicate that on average for large |A| the size of |AA+A| is only slightly larger than |A+A|. That reduces the hope for a one-line proof in general case. – Michael Apr 27 '15 at 20:49
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    @YaakovBaruch I counted incorrectly, so the inequality I claimed doesn't hold. But the set mentioned by GH from MO would work in it's place (and could be amplified by taking products and projecting). – Brendan Murphy Apr 27 '15 at 21:40
  • @WillSawin Similar estimates come up in the arithmetic approach to the Kakeya problem, although typically $\lambda$ is small and fixed. Typically more efficient sum-product type estimates use incidence theorems and avoid Ruzsa calculus if possible (e.g. Elekes' or Solymosi's sum product estimates). – Brendan Murphy Apr 28 '15 at 14:33
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    Antal Balog conjectured for $A \subset \mathbb{R}^+$, one has $|A+A \cdot A| \geq |A|^2$ in "A note on sum-product estimates" – George Shakan Apr 30 '15 at 12:25

7 Answers7

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If $p$ is an odd prime (EDIT: other than 5) for which $-1$ is a quadratic residue mod $p$, and $A$ is the set of non-zero quadratic non-residues mod $p$, then $A+A$ is all of ${\bf Z}/p{\bf Z}$, whilst $A+AA$ is ${\bf Z}/p{\bf Z} \backslash \{0\}$. So counterexamples exist in finite fields, which rules out some methods of proof (e.g. "Ruzsa calculus" by itself will be insufficient). Unfortunately, this example does not appear to be adaptable to the reals (for which $-1$ is certainly not a square, and for which there are no large multiplicative subgroups). Actually it looks difficult to build an example in the complex numbers (or any other characteristic zero field); I don't even see a way to construct an (EDIT: arbitrarily large) finite set $A$ obeying the weaker inequality $|A+AA| < \frac{|A| (|A|+1)}{2}$. One may indeed conjecture (in the spirit of the Erdos-Szemeredi sum-product conjecture) that one always has $|A+AA| \geq \frac{|A| (|A|+1)}{2}$ (EDIT: for sufficiently large $A$), but this is well beyond our current technology to prove. (EDIT: as noted in comments, there are small counterexamples obeying the weaker inequality, although they do not give counterexamples to the original inequality.)

Terry Tao
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  • A very interesting example. So, this tells us that any proof must take advantage of some property which holds for the reals but not for all finite fields.

    I wonder if the weaker conjecture that $|AA+A| \geq c|A+A|$, for some positive constant $c$, still holds in the finite field setting.

    – Oliver Roche-Newton Apr 28 '15 at 09:12
  • Interesting indeed. Ruzsa calculus can be improved slightly for torsion-free groups, e.g. Corollary 2.9 in Glasscock's thesis (https://people.math.osu.edu/glasscock.4/MSThesis.pdf) implies that a counterexample in such a group must have $|AA|<\frac{\sqrt{5}-1+o(1)}{2}|A+A|$. – GH from MO Apr 28 '15 at 10:31
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    It seems you need to exclude the case $p = 5$. – Stefan Kohl Apr 28 '15 at 10:52
  • If I'm not mistaken, a counterexample to your weaker inequality is $A = {-1,0,1}$. -- Maybe you rather meant to write $|A + AA| < \frac{|A|(|A|-1)}{2}$? – Stefan Kohl Apr 28 '15 at 10:59
  • Fair enough; I was implicitly thinking asymptotically in my answer, and have now edited it to clarify. But perhaps ${-1,0,1}$ is the only counterexample (this is about as close as one can get to being both closed under multiplication and addition, for a finite subset of the reals). – Terry Tao Apr 28 '15 at 16:53
  • @OliverRoche-Newton By taking tensor powers one can get $|AA+A|/|A+A|$ arbitrarily small in the product ring $({\bf Z}/p{\bf Z})^n$, though this is cheating of course as this ring has some zero-divisors. It could well be that there is an Erdos-Szemeredi type bound $|AA+A| \gg \min(|A|^2,|F|)$ whenever $A$ generates a finite field $F$, which would imply this weaker conjecture. (I think, by the way, that Fourier analysis gives this bound in the case $|A| \gg |F|^{1/2}$, which rules out modifying the example given in my answer.) – Terry Tao Apr 29 '15 at 14:57
  • @TerryTao, regarding the last part of your comment, I am familiar with a Fourier analytic (or spectral graph theoretic) proof that $|A|>|F|^{2/3} \Rightarrow |AA+A| \gg |F|$. One way to get this result is using an Elekes type incidence geometric argument combined with Vinh's version of the finite field Szemeredi-Trotter Theorem. To the best of my knowledge, this is the best known result for large sets. Is it known that the same if true for $|A| > |F|^{1/2}$? – Oliver Roche-Newton Apr 30 '15 at 08:14
  • Ah, you're right. The argument I had in mind showed that the natural probability measure on $AA$ had small Fourier coefficients when $|A| \gg |F|^{1/2}$, but this is only enough to get $A+AA$ somewhat larger than $A$, and not positive density in $F$, unless $|A|$ is significantly closer to $F$ (I can believe $|F|^{2/3}$ is the natural limit of the method). – Terry Tao Apr 30 '15 at 15:48
  • Thanks for clarifying. For the record, the best result I am aware of for large sets is that $|AA+A| \gg \min {|F|,|A|^3/|F| }$. In my experience, this threshold of $|F|^{2/3}$ often occurs as a limit for the method, as you suggested above. – Oliver Roche-Newton May 01 '15 at 09:02
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Here is a small observation, generalizing Lucia's comment.

Proposition. If $A$ is a set of real numbers with minimal distance at least $1$, then $$|A+AA| \geq \frac{|A|(|A|-1)}{2}\geq |A+A|-|A|.$$

Proof. Let $r_m>\dots>r_1>0$ be the positive elements of $A$. Then the subsets $r_i+r_m A$ of $A+AA$ are pairwise disjoint, because $r_i+r_ma=r_j+r_ma'$ $(i\neq j)$ would imply $$ r_m\leq |r_m(a-a')|=|r_i-r_j|<r_m.$$ Hence $|A+AA| \geq m|A|$. Similarly, let $s_n<\dots<s_1<0$ be the negative elements of $A$. Then the subsets $s_i+s_n A$ of $A+AA$ are pairwise disjoint, because $s_i+s_na=s_j+s_na'$ $(i\neq j)$ would imply $$ |s_n|\leq |s_n(a-a')|=|s_i-s_j|<|s_n|.$$ Hence $|A+AA| \geq n|A|$. It follows that $$ |A+AA| \geq\max(m,n)|A|\geq\frac{m+n}{2}|A|\geq\frac{|A|-1}{2}|A|\geq |A+A|-|A|.$$

Remark. If $m\neq n$ and $0\not\in A$, then the last display improves to $$|A+AA| \geq\max(m,n)|A|\geq\frac{m+n+1}{2}|A|=\frac{|A|+1}{2}|A|\geq |A+A|.$$

GH from MO
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    This is also noted in the comments to the post Lucia mentioned. – Brendan Murphy Apr 27 '15 at 21:25
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    @BrendanMurphy: I see now your comment there, but my post gives more detail (e.g. the separation of positive and negative elements is not entirely trivial), so I leave it. On the other hand, I don't claim any originality here, and I thank for your comment! – GH from MO Apr 27 '15 at 21:27
  • Shouldn't the very last term in the very last line have a $- \mid A \mid$ after it? – The Masked Avenger Apr 28 '15 at 04:06
  • If the minimal distance is not $1$, can't we scale all the elements (except 0 of course) to ensure this? But doing so perhaps breaks something else? – Suvrit Apr 28 '15 at 12:47
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    @Suvrit you cannot scale easily as $AA$ and $A$ scales differently yet then you add them (so if you scale by $c$ you get $c^2 AA + cA$ so $c AA + A$ not $AA +A$). If one could scale one could just assume WLOG $1 \in A$ and thus $A \subset AA $. Done. –  Apr 28 '15 at 13:16
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    @quid: excellent; thanks! I somehow ignored the $c^2$ on $AA$ --- and this highlights the crux... – Suvrit Apr 28 '15 at 14:30
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    @TheMaskedAvenger: Thanks for catching this, I updated my post accordingly. – GH from MO Apr 28 '15 at 19:50
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I believe there is an "energy" version of the conjectural inequality $|A+AA| \geq |A+A|$ which may explain why it was intuitive that there should be an "easy" proof of that inequality. Namely:

Proposition Let $A$ be a finite collection of nonzero elements of a field $F$. Let $a_1,a_2,a_3,a'_1,a'_2,a'_3$ be chosen uniformly and independently from $A$. Then $$ {\mathbf P}( a_1 + a_2 a_3 = a'_1 + a'_2 a'_3 ) \leq {\mathbf P}( a_1 + a_2 = a'_1 + a'_2 ).$$

Informally, this asserts that $A+AA$ is "flatter" than $A+A$ in an $L^2$ sense, which leans toward $A+AA$ being larger in size than $A+A$, but does not imply it (as my counterexample in my other response shows).

The proof is basically Cauchy-Schwarz. If one defines $E(A,B;C,D)$ to be the number of quadruples $a \in A, b \in B, c \in C, d \in D$ with $a+b=c+d$, then two applications of Cauchy-Schwarz give $$ E(A,B;C,D) \leq E(A,A;A,A)^{1/4} E(B,B;B,B)^{1/4} E(C,C;C,C)^{1/4} E(D,D;D,D)^{1/4}$$ which imply in particular that $$ {\mathbf P}( a_1 + a_2 b = a'_1 + a'_2 c ) \leq {\mathbf P}( a_1 + a_2 = a'_1 + a'_2 )$$ for any non-zero deterministic $b,c$. Replacing $b,c$ by $a_3, a'_3$ and then taking expectations we obtain the claim.

Terry Tao
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  • Nice! Or, saying the same thing in a slightly different language, this proves that $|{(a,b,c,d,e,f) \in A^6 : a+cb=d+ef}| \leq |A|^2E^+(A)$, where $E^+(A)$ is the additive energy of $A$. – Oliver Roche-Newton Apr 30 '15 at 08:47
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One interesting case is to take $A=\{(1+a)a^i:0\leq i< n\}$ for some $a>0$ and some $n$. Then $|AA|=2n-1$ (which I think is the minimum possible) and for generic $a$ we have $|A+A|=n(n+1)/2\sim n^2/2$ (which is maximal). Experimental calculations show that $|AA+A|\sim 2n^2$. This is much smaller than the naive guess of approximately $n^3$, but still bigger than $|A+A|$.

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    I'm not sure whether $|AA|=2n-1$ is minimum possible. For instance, if $A = { -1,0,1 }$, then $AA = A$. Perhaps if you replace your set $A$ by $A \cup -A$ you also get interesting examples; I haven't verified this. – Tom De Medts Apr 27 '15 at 15:53
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    @TomDeMedts adding 0 adds 1 to element to both A and AA. Adding all negations doubles the number of elements of A and AA if A was strictly positive. First add negations, then add 0, for n elements in A', and 2n-3 elements in AA'. – Yakk Apr 27 '15 at 19:22
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    Another more obvious example for which $|AA+A| \ll |A|^2$ is the set $A={1,2,\dots,N}$. Then $AA+A \subset {1,N^2+N}$.

    I think part of the difficulty in showing that $AA+A$ is always "large" comes from the fact that there are very different sets (i.e. both arithmetic and geometric progressions) for which $A+AA$ is relatively "small".

    – Oliver Roche-Newton Apr 28 '15 at 13:51
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The corresponding thing in measure fails.

Let $A = [0,1/2]$. Then $A+A = [0,1]$ has measure $1$. And $AA = [0,1/4]$, so $AA+A = [0,3/4]$ has measure $3/4$.

But I did not manage to convert this to a finite counterexample.

Gerald Edgar
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    With measures you can make sets "smaller" by multiplying its element with a number $<1$. $AA$ becomes scaled smaller twice. This doesn't happen in the discrete case. – j.p. Apr 27 '15 at 13:57
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    @j.p.: we are using real numbers, so $1/2$ can be an element of $A$. But you are right we would want $AA$ not merely to be half the size, but rather to have half the number of elements. – Gerald Edgar Apr 27 '15 at 14:01
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    Yes, I was referring with "size" (implicitly) to the number of elements in the discrete case. – j.p. Apr 27 '15 at 14:04
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Here is another lower bound for $|A+a_nA|$, which is close to $|A|^2$ if the gaps between elements of $A$ are bounded independent of $|A|$. (This is getting somewhat off topic, although it seems that $|A+AA|\geq |A+A|$ might be true by coincidence in cases where $1\not\in A$.)

Let $A=\{a_1,\ldots,a_n\}$ with $0<a_1<\cdots<a_n$, and let $\delta=\min_{i\not=j}|a_i-a_j|$; WLOG $\delta<1$. Then I

Claim: that $$ |A+a_nA|\geq\frac{\delta}3 |A|^2. $$

Proof: Let $d=\lceil 1/\delta\rceil$ and let $g=a_n-a_1$. Fix $\lambda$ in $A$ and let $S_{\lambda}$ denote the number of solutions to $$ y_i=b-\lambda x_i $$ with $(x_i,y_i)\in A\times A$, labelling the $x_i$'s so that $x_1<\cdots<x_{S_{\lambda}}$.

Sub-claim: $S_{\lambda}\leq d\lceil g/\lambda\rceil+1$.

Proof: Since the minimum gap between consecutive $x_i$'s is $\delta$, we have $$ |x_{i+d}-x_i|\geq 1 $$ hence $$ |y_{i+d}-y_i| = \lambda|x_{i+d}-x_i|\geq \lambda. $$ If we let $k=d\lceil g/\lambda\rceil$, then $$ |y_{k+1}-y_1|\geq \lambda\lceil g/\lambda\rceil\geq g. $$ Since the maximum gap between any two elements of $A$ is $g$, it follows that $S_\lambda\leq k+1=d\lceil g/\lambda\rceil+1$.

End proof of sub-claim

Note that $S_{\lambda}$ is the number of ways to write $b=a+\lambda a'$ with $a,a'\in A$; this is typically denoted $r_{A+\lambda A}(b)$.

If we take $\lambda=a_n$, then we have $r_{A+\lambda A}(b)\leq d+1$. Since there are $|A|^2$ pairs $(a,a')$ and $|A+\lambda A|$ many targets $b$, we have $$ |A+\lambda A|\geq\frac{|A|^2}{d+1}\geq\frac{\delta}{2\delta+1}|A|^2. $$ QED

Note that if $\lambda<1$, it is better to reverse the roles of $x_i$ and $y_i$ in the sub-claim.

Assuming that $a_1>1$ for simplicity, we can prove a lower bound for $|A+AA|$, which could potentially be better than the lower bound for $|A+a_nA|$.

First, note that $$ |A|^3\leq |A+AA|\sup_{b\in A+AA}|\{(a,a',a'')\in A^3\colon a+a'a''=b\}|. $$ Now $$ |\{(a,a',a'')\in A^3\colon a+a'a''=b\}|=\sum_{i=1}^n r_{A+a_iA}(b). $$ Since $r_{A+a_iA}(b)\leq d\lceil g/a_i\rceil+1$ independent of $b$, it follows that $$ |A|^3\leq |A+AA|\sum_{i=1}^n \left(d\lceil g/a_i\rceil+1\right). $$

It might be possible to improve the bound by looking for large subsets of $A$ where $g$ is smaller or $\delta$ is larger; if $a_n$ is an outlier and you can make $g$ smaller, then the first first bound is improved. Unfortunately, if $A$ is too uniform, these bounds are useless. For example, a set of $n$ points in $(1,2)$ that are "generic" but roughly equally spaced (so $\delta\approx 1/n$) shows that these bounds can't prove $|A+AA|\geq |A+A|$ in general.

  • Very nice! I have only a petty quibble that you should change the notation so that $r$ has only one meaning. So, $|AA+A| \gg |A|^2$ for well-separated sets, and this argument broadens the definition of well-separated. – Oliver Roche-Newton Apr 29 '15 at 09:15
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I think $\big\{-1, 0, \frac{1+\sqrt{5}}{2}\big\}$ is a counterexample. THIS IS WRONG, see comments, but I'll leave it up as a warning.