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How can it be said that the real beginning of the real universe involved a "singularity of zero size and infinite density of mass" when no space existed at all to define any density and when nothing/zero is only an imaginary concept and not real?

Qmechanic
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totally finite
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    Oh man.... where to begin.... (BBS, will spend the next 3 years writing an answer/book) – Alec Teal Sep 11 '15 at 05:08
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    They say a lot of things on tv that aren't true. This is just one of them. – CuriousOne Sep 11 '15 at 05:09
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    The Big Bang didn't happen at a point – John Rennie Sep 11 '15 at 06:28
  • Whoever downvoted, I think you should reconsider as the downvote seems unfair to me. It is a very common confusion that the universe started as a point of zero size. Indeed you'll still encounter popular science programmes implying or even outright stating this even today. – John Rennie Sep 11 '15 at 06:31
  • In addition, ANY CONTINUOUS entity of ANY SIZE must be described as having "infinite density" of attribute - no 'gaps'. So what is the so-called significance of the singularity density - it is nothing special... However, the singularity description does automatically demonstrate the need for a "cosmological constant"; namely, the mathematical value attributed to 'mass'. – totally finite Aug 20 '17 at 13:46

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The cosmological data from observations have been fitted with the Big Bang model. Fitted means that a mathematical formula is used which fits the data with acceptable errors.

One has to be clear that mathematics is not physics. That the formula fitting the observations has a singularity at the beginning of its functional form, does not mean that physical values also follow up to that singularity. There are no data for that extrapolation , the (0,0,0,0) of the formula, and no known way to get at the data, so there is no contradiction as far as physics goes. The mathematical formulae used in physics have a region of validity, i.e. have been validated, and the origin is outside the region of validity of the present model.

With the above in mind

How can it be said that the real beginning of the real universe involved a "singularity of zero size and infinite density of mass"

the zero size is a mathematical concept, the density of mass is a physics concept. It is wrong to extrapolate a physics concept mathematically to regions where the mathematical model has not been validated, as is the beginning of the universe.

when no space existed at all to define any density and when nothing/zero is only an imaginary concept and not real?

by imaginary you mean mathematical, and by real you mean a measurable physics quantity. So it has no meaning to extrapolate physics to the mathematical singularity.

This said there is on going research for quantizing gravity and this means that the solutions at the extremes of the origin will be different, as it is different for the classical coulomb case between charged particles which has a 1/r singularity for opposite charges. Quantum mechanical solutions solve this conundrum and it may be the same for the origin of the Big Bang.

anna v
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  • I don't think this answers the question. Specifically it doesn't address the OP's question about the singlarity having zero size. – John Rennie Sep 11 '15 at 06:29
  • @JohnRennie Energy is a physics concept. The zero size of the singularity is a mathematical concept. I am saying that it does not follow that the identification of energy with certain mathematical variables in a functional form has a meaning outside the limits of validation of the mathematical model with physical data. – anna v Sep 11 '15 at 11:09
  • Sorry for the late reply. Crap! They are directly connected of course. Hmm... equations... quanta... You don't know what a Projected Temporal Incrementuum is, you are just ignorant of the connection. Does that make you right...? No, you're wrong. – totally finite Dec 15 '22 at 06:49
  • @totallyfinite we cannot agree. For me mathematics is a tool that can be used to model measurements and observations. There are true believers that "mathematics creates reality" platonists, maybe. I am of the school that "mathematics can model reality". After all, all the science fiction worlds imagined could be modeled with mathematics. Does this mean they exist? – anna v Dec 15 '22 at 07:09