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Let us consider a homogeneous rope hanging from the ceiling. I will call the vertical direction $x$ and the horizontal displacement $y$. When we apply the second Newton's Law to a portion of mass $\Delta m$ and proceed in the same way we do for a horizontal string we get $$\mu\frac{\partial^2 y(x,t)}{\partial t^2}=\frac{\partial}{\partial x}\left[T(x)\frac{\partial y(x,t)}{\partial x}\right].$$ The difference now is that the tension is not constant. Defining $x=0$ at the free end of the rope and orienting it upwards we have the tension $T=\mu gx$. Therefore, $$\frac{\partial^2 y}{\partial t^2}=gx\frac{\partial^2y}{dx^2}-g\frac{\partial y}{\partial x}.$$

So, my issue is that I have seen in a couple of physics books (for instance) that the wave speed of this rope is simply $$v=\sqrt{\frac{T}{\mu}}=\sqrt{gx}.$$ In my opinion these books are either:

i) Cheating the students: they know it is wrong but assume it is right just to show some nice features (the speed would increase as the wave goes upwards).

ii) Had misconception assuming that the usual wave equation are still valid.

iii) Is doing some obscure approximation, which is another cheat if you do not reveal it.

My questions are:

1) Is there an expression for the wave speed for the "wave equation" above?

2) Is there an approximation leading to the wave speed given above?

Diracology
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    Every book that pretends this is 100% false. A short look for resources on the internet shows that the solutions should be the Bessel functions of order zero, which, despite the rustiness of my math, sounds about right. It seems that this problem was already solved by Bernoulli and Euler in the 18th century... which really leaves no excuses on the table. – CuriousOne May 11 '16 at 00:19
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    @CuriousOne Yes, the solutions are of the type $y(x,t)=A\cos(\omega_n t+\phi)J_0(2\omega_n\sqrt{x/g})$, where $\omega_n$ are certain discrete frequencies. However I have not found anything about the speed of the wave/pulse. – Diracology May 11 '16 at 00:21
  • @Diracology, it appears that you have seen the free response questions on the AP Physics 1 exam. Those questions have already been thoroughly vetted by the professors associated with APCentral. – David White May 11 '16 at 01:22
  • @DavidWhite I don't know about AP Physics. The subject of these question came about when I was preparing a lecture. I colleague told me about the interesting example of calculating the time a pulse would take to go upwards a hanging rope. Then I realized that a couple of undergrad physics books are taking this wrong (I suppose). – Diracology May 11 '16 at 01:29
  • @Diracology, thanks for the prompt reply. The problem you are asking about was tested on 5/03/16 during the AP Physics 1 exam, for high school students across the country, and internationally. The conversation that you had with your colleague may have been prompted by this question. If not, I apologize for posting my original response. – David White May 11 '16 at 01:56
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    @DavidWhite: What does "thoroughly vetted" mean in this context? That they found it pedagogically reasonable to call the average velocity of a short wave packet the wave velocity, that the question as posed glanced over this, that the students were expected to produce a false result by simplifying the equation ad hoc? Does AP Physics 1 expect students to handle Bessel functions? Were they told how to proceed to simplify the problem if it doesn't? I am confused. – CuriousOne May 11 '16 at 04:40
  • Whoops, I'm totally guilty of this. Is the 'varying wave speed' approximately correct in some limit at least? – knzhou May 11 '16 at 05:04
  • @CuriousOne, it means that in the context of the AP Physics 1 test given to high school juniors, the professors who dreamed up the problem discussed the problem at length. Obviously, I was incorrect in my original assumption regarding the context put forward by the OP, so my previous comment is not valid. – David White May 11 '16 at 11:05
  • @DavidWhite: A high school junior is not able to solve this problem correctly (unless he has taught himself to be years ahead of his class... how many have?) and should not be asked to. If that is what "vetted" means in the modern school system, then the system shows near criminal negligence. We are getting daily examples of that here, by the way... the number of incorrectly posed high school physics problems is staggering. End of rant. – CuriousOne May 11 '16 at 11:08
  • @CuriousOne I think you are being "soft" or "moderate". In my opinion the regular first year undergrad student is not able to solve this problem correctly. And this is the problem because these books have exactly this target people. – Diracology May 11 '16 at 12:04
  • You are right. I am less concerned about the undergrads who are training to solve problems that nobody has solved before. That doesn't mean they should be fed false solutions, of course, but the psychological impact is different. I remember my own high school physics exam where we were given a question that required us to derive $P=dE_{kin}/dt=mva$, which had never been done in class. A few students solved it, but many had problems. The question was officially taken off the test and there was no penalty for failing to solve it because the teachers stood up for the student's interests. – CuriousOne May 11 '16 at 20:22
  • @CuriousOne, the high school problem didn't ask students to solve the partial differential equation, but it did ask students to answer concept questions regarding the velocity and wavelength on different parts of the rope. Even this type of questioning is, in my opinion, beyond the analytical abilities of high school juniors who are taking their first physics course. And yes, there has been a LOT of my kind of feedback on the APCentral blog, where the high level decision makers converse. – David White May 11 '16 at 21:31
  • @CuriousOne, may I ask who you are referring to when you say "We are getting daily examples of that here"? Your feedback may be relevant for the APCentral people who are choosing these problems. – David White May 11 '16 at 21:33
  • @DavidWhite: I would agree with that. That's something one can ask a first semester physics student to do. I would only do this on the high school level if it's a high school program for students with special gifts who are way ahead of their age group. That's appropriate, but then... in general this is way, way beyond. As for poorly posed questions... I don't ask the OPs where they are from, some seem to be from SAT kind of tests and many are from outside the US, e.g. India, I believe, but I am not conducting a thorough investigation, only noting that there is still a lot of poor teaching. – CuriousOne May 11 '16 at 21:39

3 Answers3

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@diracology writes in a comment above that the solutions are $$y(x,t)=A\cos(\omega_n t+\phi)J_0(2\omega_n\sqrt{x/g})$$ where $\omega_n$ are "certain discrete frequencies".

For small $x$ (up to the first zero), $$J_0(x) \sim \cos\frac{x}{\sqrt 2}$$ and for higher $x$, $$J_0(x) \sim \sqrt{\frac{2}{\pi x}} \cos(x-\frac{\pi}{4}).$$

In the latter case we thus get $$\begin{align} y(x,t) & \sim A\cos(\omega_n t+\phi) \sqrt{\frac{2}{\pi 2\omega_n\sqrt{x/g}}} \cos(2\omega_n\sqrt{x/g}-\frac{\pi}{4}) \\ & = A \sqrt{\frac{\sqrt{g}}{\pi\omega_n\sqrt{x}}} \cos(\omega_n t+\phi) \cos(\frac{2\omega_n}{\sqrt g}\sqrt{x}-\frac{\pi}{4}) \end{align}$$

Using the formula $\cos u \cos v = \frac12 (\cos(u+v) + \cos(u-v))$ this can be rewritten as $$\begin{align} y(x,t) & \sim A \frac12\sqrt{\frac{\sqrt{g}}{\pi\omega_n\sqrt{x}}} \left(\cos(\omega_n t+\phi + \frac{2\omega_n}{\sqrt g}\sqrt{x}-\frac{\pi}{4})+\cos(\omega_n t+\phi - \frac{2\omega_n}{\sqrt g}\sqrt{x}+\frac{\pi}{4})\right) \\ & = A \frac12\sqrt{\frac{\sqrt{g}}{\pi\omega_n\sqrt{x}}} \left(\cos(\omega_n(t+ \frac{2}{\sqrt g}\sqrt{x}) + \phi_1)+\cos(\omega_n(t-\frac{2}{\sqrt g}\sqrt{x})+\phi_2)\right) \end{align}$$

The wave speed is given by constant phases, i.e. by calculating $dx/dt$ where $$t \pm \frac{2}{\sqrt g}\sqrt{x} = t_0,$$ where $t_0$ is some constant.

This gives $$x = \frac{g}{4} (t-t_0)^2$$ so $$\frac{dx}{dt} = \frac{g}{2} (t-t_0) = \mp\sqrt{gx}.$$

Thus, the wave speed is $$u = \sqrt{gx}$$ when $x$ is not too close to $0$.

md2perpe
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1

2) Prof Carl E Mungan of the US Naval Academy derives a wave speed of $\sqrt{gx}$ by assuming the length of a pulse travelling along the rope is much smaller than the length of the rope. He states that this relation has been verified in experiments (reference 2). http://www.usna.edu/Users/physics/mungan/_files/documents/Scholarship/HangingPulse.pdf

sammy gerbil
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  • Actually, if you read the paper in detail, he derives that the velocity of the pulse varies along the rope, just as one would assume. While one can derive an average velocity from this, it is not correct to say that the average velocity is the wave velocity. – CuriousOne May 11 '16 at 04:36
  • @CuriousOne : That is what I've written : that wave speed varies along the rope as sqrt(gx) approx. This is not an average wave speed; I have not claimed that it is, neither has Prof Mungan. Diracology's question does not ask for an average. – sammy gerbil May 11 '16 at 12:27
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If you have a pulse with short wavelength $\Delta x$ passing by the position $x_0$ and $\Delta x \ll x_0$, $$\frac{\partial^2 y}{\partial t^2}=gx_0\frac{\partial^2y}{dx^2}+g(x-x_0)\frac{\partial^2y}{dx^2}-g\frac{\partial y}{\partial x}\approx gx_0\frac{\partial^2y}{dx^2}$$ where we neglect the term involving $(x-x_0)$ since the pulse is within $\Delta x$ of $x_0$, and we neglect the first order derivative in comparison with the first term since $$x_0\frac{\partial^2y}{dx^2}\sim \frac{x_0}{\Delta x}\frac{\partial y}{dx}.$$

So for a short wavelength pulse near $x_0$ this equation is approximately the wave equation with speed $\sqrt{g x_0}.$

Of course this was an approximation and if the wavelength gets too short other physical effects (e.g. links on a chain) might come into play.

octonion
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