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Lagrangian and Hamiltonian formulations are the bedrock of particle and field theories, produce the same equations of motion, and are related through a Legendre transform. Are there more such mathematical objects that are equivalent, or are these two in some way unique? If so, why are there two equivalent systems, rather than a single (or more)?

Qmechanic
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anon01
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  • You want mathematically equivalent objects only in the context of Classical mechanics? If not, then you can remember all the different formulations of QM – DLV Jun 28 '16 at 23:09
  • I didn't mean that. I thought your question was about other examples of reformulations of the same thing. As an example I mentioned all the different formulations of QM. – DLV Jun 28 '16 at 23:14
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    If your question is solely about CM then you might like this post https://www.quora.com/Are-there-any-alternative-formulations-of-mechanics-besides-the-usual-Newtonian-and-Lagrangian-ones-Ideally-speaking-should-anymore-be-possible – DLV Jun 28 '16 at 23:15
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    If you like this question you may also enjoy reading this Phys.SE post. – Qmechanic Jun 29 '16 at 14:48

3 Answers3

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There is also the Routhian formalism of mechanics which is described as being a hybrid of Lagrangian and hamiltonian mechanics. The Routhian is defined as $$R = \sum_{i=1}^n p_i\dot{q}_i - L$$ You can learn more about it by clicking this link for Wikipedia's description of it.

Reading more in regards to the routhian because I was bored, I realized it is defined as the partial Legendre transform of the Lagrangian and also in the language of differential geometry it is defined similarly to the Lagrangian as $$R^\mu : TM \to \mathbb{R}$$ where $$R^\mu(q, \dot{q}) = L(q, \dot{q}) - \langle A(q, \dot{q}), \mu\rangle$$ where $A$ is the mechanical connection term. You can read more about it in this pdf.

  • I must say I had never heard of this thing before. Interesting! – QuantumBrick Jun 29 '16 at 02:18
  • @QuantumBrick This answer, like QuantumBrick's, is good thanks. I was hoping for greater insight into why these few objects (Hamiltonian/Lagrangian,Routhian, Hamilton-Jacobi) are imbued with magic dust for generating eq. of m. Maybe its really as simple as a single object that can be cast in different forms via Legendre transform, and thats it. – anon01 Jul 05 '16 at 22:13
  • It is not at all that simple and it has really nothing to do with Legendre transforms. If you want I can update my answer with an outline of the three main formalisms of mechanics. – QuantumBrick Jul 06 '16 at 01:36
  • I edited my answer adding more information. :) –  Jul 09 '16 at 17:28
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It's worth pointing out that the Hamiltonian and Lagrangian formalisms are independent, even though they're usually taught as if the former were a filtering of the latter (here enter Legendre transforms). Both formalisms are as independent as the notions of tangent and cotangent bundles in differential geometry: independent, but intrinsically connected.

Also, there's a third formalism: the Hamilton-Jacobi one. It is as good as the other two, and carries a completelly different interpretation of the equations of motion. All those formalisms are deeply connected an each has its advantages and geometric interpretation.

As a last comment: you can think of many other interpretations of Mechanics. There are as many as you want. An example of a new, yet useful one, is the centre-chord interpretation, related to the Weyl-Wigner interpretation os quantum machanics. As long as your transformations are canonical, the sky is the limit regarding the creation of new points of view in Mechanics.

QuantumBrick
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All the various "free energies" of thermodynamics are but a (or sometime a few) Legendre transform(s) away from the plain old energy.

  • To get the Helmholtz free energy from the energy you perform a Legendre transformation between entropy and temperature.

  • To get the enthalpy from the energy you perform a Legendre transformation between volume and pressure.

  • To get the Gibbs free energy from the energy you perform two Legendre transforms, one between entropy and temperature and the other between volume and pressure.

  • And so on (there are others, but they are less common in application). In particular you can exchange a description in therms of particle numbers for one in terms of chemical potentials when needed.