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There are so many times that something leaves you stumped. I was recently reading the paper "Feynman's derivation of Maxwell's equations and extra dimensions" and the derivation of the Maxwell's equations from just Newton's second law and the quantum mechanical commutation relations really intrigued me. They only derived the Bianchi set, yet with slight tweakings with relativity, the other two can be derived.

Awesome as it is, does this even have a physical interpretation? How is it possible to mix together classical and quantum equations for a single particle, which aren't even compatible, and produce a description of the electromagnetic field?

knzhou
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  • beautiful paper – lurscher Mar 12 '18 at 11:56
  • it seems to be missing the connection between the algebraical fields and the sources. The actual Maxwell theory asserts that these fields arise from sources, it is not clear in the paper what role is there for sources – lurscher Mar 12 '18 at 11:58
  • Well, you can obviously interpret the fields as quantum fields giving rise to the field sources. We obviously need an extension, but is the form that he derives just a bitter coincidence? – Yuzuriha Inori Mar 12 '18 at 12:01
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    The physical meaning of the Feynman's proof is that the coupling to external fields is dictated by the Poisson geometry of the configuration space. The solutions of the Feynman problem for configuration spaces of interest in physics are the minimal coupling interactions: Lorentz force, its non-Abelian generalizations, gravity and Kaluza-Klein. The Feynman's proof can be performed completely within classical mechanics where the commutations are given by means of Poisson brackets. It is a profound result and completely nonintuitive in spite of its apparently simple derivation. – David Bar Moshe Mar 13 '18 at 13:04
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    cont. The Feynman's proof is a special case of invese problems in the calculus of variation. Please see carinena, Ibort, Marmo and Stern http://cds.cern.ch/record/283762/files/SCAN-9506196.pdf – David Bar Moshe Mar 13 '18 at 13:07

1 Answers1

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Feynman's derivation is wonderful, and I want to sketch why we would expect it to work, and what implicit assumptions it's really making. The real issue is that by switching back and forth between quantum and classical notation, Feynman sneaks in physical assumptions that are sufficiently restrictive to determine Maxwell's equations uniquely.

To show this, I'll give a similar proof in fully classical, relativistic notation. By locality, we expect the force on a particle at position $x^\mu$ with momentum $p^\mu$ depends solely on $p^\mu$ and $F(x^\mu$). (This is Eq. 1 in the paper.) Then the most general possible expression for the relativistic four-force is $$\frac{d p^\mu}{d\tau}= F_1^\mu(x^\mu) + F_2^{\mu\nu}(x^\mu)\, p_\nu + F_3^{\mu\nu\rho}(x^\mu)\, p_\nu p_\rho + \ldots$$ where we have an infinite series of $F_i$ tensors representing the field $F$. (Of course, we already implicitly used rotational invariance to get this.) I'll suppress the $x^\mu$ argument to save space.

It's clear that we need more physical assumptions at this point since the $F_i$ are much too general. The next step is to assume that the Lagrangian $L(x^\mu, \dot{x}^\mu, t)$ is quadratic in velocity. Differentiating, this implies that the force must be at most linear in momentum, so we have $$\frac{d p^\mu}{d\tau}= F_1^\mu + F_2^{\mu\nu}\, p_\nu.$$ This is a rather strong assumption, so how did Feynman slip it in? It's in equation 2, $$[x_i, v_j] = i \frac{\hbar}{m} \delta_{ij}.$$ Now, to go from classical Hamiltonian mechanics to quantum mechanics, we perform Dirac's prescription of replacing Poisson brackets with commutators, which yields the canonical commutation relations $[x_i, p_j] = i \hbar \delta_{ij}$ where $x_i$ and $p_i$ are classically canonically conjugate. Thus, Feynman's Eq. 2 implicitly uses the innocuous-looking equation $$\mathbf{p} = m \mathbf{v}.$$ However, since the momentum is defined as $$p \equiv \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{x}}$$ this is really a statement that the Lagrangian is quadratic in velocity, so the force is at most linear in velocity. Thus we get a strong mathematical constraint by using a familiar, intuitive physical result.

The next physical assumption is that the force does not change the mass of the particle. Feynman does this implicitly when moving from Eq. 2 to Eq. 4 by not including a $dm/dt$ term. On the other hand, since $p^\mu p_\mu = m^2$, in our notation $dm/dt = 0$ is equivalent to the nontrivial constraint $$0 = p_\mu \frac{dp^\mu}{d\tau} = F_1^\mu p_\mu + F_2^{\mu\nu} p_\mu p_\nu.$$ For this to always hold, we need $F_1 = 0$ and $F_2$ (hereafter called $F$) to be an antisymmetric tensor and hence a rank two differential form. We've now recovered the Lorentz force law $$\frac{d p^\mu}{d\tau} = F^{\mu\nu} p_\nu.$$

Our next task is to restore Maxwell's equations. That seems impossible because we don't know anything about the field's dynamics, but again the simplicity of the Hamiltonian helps. Since it is at most quadratic in momentum, the most general form is $$H = \frac{p^2}{2m} + \mathbf{A}_1 \cdot \mathbf{p} + A_2.$$ Collecting $\mathbf{A}_1$ and $A_2$ into a four-vector $A^\mu$, Hamilton's equations are $$\frac{dp^\mu}{d\tau} = (dA)^{\mu\nu} p_\nu$$ where $d$ is the exterior derivative. That is, the simplicity of the Hamiltonian forces the field $F$ to be described in terms of a potential, $F = dA$. Since $d^2 = 0$ we conclude $$dF = 0$$ which contains two of Maxwell's equations, specifically Gauss's law for magnetism and Faraday's law. So far we haven't actually used relativity, just worked in relativistic notation, and indeed this is where our derivation and Feynman's run out of steam. To get the other two equations, we need relativity proper.


The basic conclusion is that Feynman's derivation is great, but not completely mysterious. In particular, it isn't really mixing classical and quantum mechanics at all -- the quantum equations that Feynman uses are equivalent to classical ones derived from Hamilton's equations, because he is using the Dirac quantization procedure, so the only real purpose of the quantum mechanics is to slip in $\mathbf{p} = m \mathbf{v}$, and by extension, the fact that the Hamiltonian is very simple, i.e. quadratic in $\mathbf{p}$. The other assumptions are locality and mass conservation.

It's not surprising that electromagnetism pops out almost 'for free', because the space of possible theories really is quite constrained. In the more general framework of quantum field theory, we can get Maxwell's equations by assuming locality, parity symmetry, Lorentz invariance, and that there exists a long-range force mediated by a spin 1 particle, as explained elsewhere on this site. This has consequences for classical physics, because the only classical physics we can observe are those quantum fields which have a sensible classical limit.

knzhou
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  • Oh cool, so now we have an even clearer implication of unrelated classical and quantum mechanical trickery to get Maxwell's Equations! How awesome is that? But, the question still remains, why does this happen? If its just a mathematical curiosity, then is it a coincidence that we can identify the terms in the final equation with something real in our universe? (i deleted this by mistake) – Yuzuriha Inori Mar 12 '18 at 12:38
  • @YuzurihaInori I'm working on an edit! The basic point is that all of Feynman's quantum mechanical equations are exactly the same in classical mechanics by Ehrenfest's theorem. The quantum mechanics isn't 'really' there. – knzhou Mar 12 '18 at 12:39
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    @YuzurihaInori What I try to emphasize in the answer is that it's not mathematical trickery. There is a lot of trickery but it's all physical; Feynman is sneaking in experimentally well-tested assumptions about the physical world in between the lines. – knzhou Mar 12 '18 at 12:40
  • Well, Ehrenfest still talks about expectation values. Even if its nothing quantum, still classical mechanics (more emphasis than just italics) with just some definitions and all, deriving the Maxwell equations. – Yuzuriha Inori Mar 12 '18 at 12:41
  • @YuzurihaInori I added more explanation. Ehrenfest is part of it but the real issue is that the Hamilton's equations are exactly the same as the Heisenberg-picture QM equations Feynman is using; you can literally convert every quantum quantity there to a classical one and it goes through unchanged. – knzhou Mar 12 '18 at 12:43
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    If we use relativity from the very beginning, can we expect Einstein to pop out instead of Maxwell (or rather, along with Maxwell) ? – Yuzuriha Inori Mar 12 '18 at 12:44
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    @YuzurihaInori Also, yeah, it's quite interesting that we can get such strong constraints on fields just by how they act on particles. On the other hand, that's not actually that surprising because that is the only way we've ever gotten information about fields. Nobody has ever measured an electric field -- only how it acts on particles. – knzhou Mar 12 '18 at 12:44
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    @YuzurihaInori Yes! See Feynman's "Lectures on Gravitation" where he generalizes what I said in my last paragraph to get Einstein's equations for free. – knzhou Mar 12 '18 at 12:44
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    @YuzurihaInori Look here! – knzhou Mar 12 '18 at 12:46
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    Mathematician here: I do not understand how you get $dF=0$ from the topology of spacetime: there's plenty of non closed 2-forms in $R^4$ (if anything the topology gives us that $dF=0\Rightarrow F=dA$) – Denis Nardin Mar 13 '18 at 13:47
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    @DenisNardin You're completely right, I was far too careless in that step. I've replaced this argument with a physical one I believe is correct. – knzhou Mar 13 '18 at 15:48
  • "the most general possible expression for the relativistic four-force is" there are other expressions of the possible equations of motion that you are not considering. What you are really assuming there throughout the derivation is that the Hamiltonian for the particle has form $p^2/2m + \mathbf{A}(\mathbf r)\cdot\mathbf p + A_0(\mathbf r)$. In other words, you are assuming that the particle has Hamiltonian that is Taylor series in $p$ with at most quadratic term that is further isotropic and homogeneous in space. Those are very special assumptions, motivated by the desired result.

    – Ján Lalinský Apr 27 '18 at 15:36
  • I'm just pointing this out since in the beginning it seems like your derivation leads to some kind of general result. I think it would help to stress the special assumption about the form of the Hamiltonian at the beginning. – Ján Lalinský Apr 27 '18 at 15:42
  • @JánLalinský Sure, I assume rotational invariance, I guess I didn’t mention that explicitly. When on Earth wouldn’t you assume that? – knzhou Apr 27 '18 at 16:00
  • I meant two different things, regarding the beginning of your derivation. First, you assume that force as function of momenta is power series in momenta. Second, and rather more special assumption, is that the force is at most linear in momenta. This is not generally true if Lagrangian has bilinear or quadratic terms in velocity that depend on position. So you have to assume a special Lagrangian right from the start, where the quadratic or bilinear terms are not multiplied by a function of position. Which they could be in principle, if there is force field. – Ján Lalinský Apr 27 '18 at 16:18
  • As I see it, you are implicitly assuming the standard "minimal coupling" Lagrangian/Hamiltonian already in the beginning, although your explanation makes an impression that you arrive at it from some kind of more general assumptions. So I think it would be more clear if you stated the form of the assumed Lagrangian/Hamiltonian in the beginning, as the basis of the derivation. Otherwise, I think we are in agreement - the derivation given by Dyson is using a lot of assumptions to get there. – Ján Lalinský Apr 27 '18 at 16:31
  • @JánLalinský Okay, I guess I also assume spatial homogeneity and analyticity, but that is again so basic I didn't bother mentioning them. If you're not going to accept something that basic, then clearly we can't prove anything! – knzhou Apr 27 '18 at 17:07
  • @JánLalinský Besides these basic assumptions, I agree that assuming the Lagrangian is at most quadratic in velocity is a real nontrivial assumption. I didn't justify it, just pointed out where Feynman implicitly assumed it. Overall I am just showing what Feynman did! – knzhou Apr 27 '18 at 17:08
  • You're missing my point - I get that you are trying to show that the derivation from Dyson isn't a miraculous generation of new physical knowledge from thin air, but I think your answer above still makes misleading impression on people that somehow the result is a consequence of more or less inevitable assumptions. You are right that those assumptions are equivalent to the result; but they are not inevitable. Force field may not be describable by Lagrangian/Hamiltonian; if it is, the Lagrangian/Hamiltonian describing it may be more general than what is assumed in these kinds of derivations. – Ján Lalinský Apr 27 '18 at 17:18
  • I would suggest to edit a little, at least the part where you say the force must be at most linear in momentum - this is a very special assumption. – Ján Lalinský Apr 27 '18 at 17:19
  • @JánLalinský Sure, I've added a few caveats; I think the claims are a bit more conservative now. – knzhou Apr 27 '18 at 17:25