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In the following picture I am trying to eliminate the role of acceleration in twin-paradox like scenario.

  • I is moving from right to left at constant speed .8c represented by a small orange bar on top line on right.
  • S is stationary represented by a small red bar on middle line
  • O is moving from left to right at constant speed .8c represented by a small blue bar on bottom line on left.
  • I and O are moving at SAME speed of .8c.

When the scenario starts then the bottom left black arrow happens first, then after some time the upward pointing right black arrow and then at last the down pointing top left black arrow.

I am also trying to avoid the case of any of the clocks jumping their own inertial frames.

Given that, will S find that duration SWs > SWi + SWo ? Why?

Of course S, O and I are using light clocks for counting the duration on their stop watches.

enter image description here

Comparing Videos

Let us assume that S, O and I are identical triplet so we can sort of visualize comparison of their aging. Let us assume that video cameras were recording the triplets aging process. After the experiment was over we wanted to put the videos side by side. Obviously the length of the video recorded by S will be longer than the sum of the length of the video recorded by O and I. Obviously we must align the start of videos of O and S. Obviously we should align the end of the video of I and S. I have slightly modified the diagram by @Cleonis.

enter image description here

  • Will the S video section AB align O video section AM ?
  • Will the S video section TZ align I video section MZ ?
  • the S video section BT will not have any corresponding part to O and I videos? If so why don't all the explanations of Twin paradox not state this clearly?
  • At the end of S video section AB and O video section AM, will S and O look equally old?
  • At the start of S video section TZ and I video section MZ, S will look older that I by BT time? However the age difference between S and I will seem to remain the same (BT) over the duration of TZ and MZ ?

So basically S video section BT accounts for S aging more right?

If we stretch the videos AM and MZ by equal amount to make it same length as AZ, will it give a visualization of how the aging difference happens? Or the aging of S should not be amortized but should be left as a sudden jump in the aging?

I hope it makes sense.

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    It may be a good idea to start by drawing a spacetime diagram. – Sandejo Mar 06 '21 at 21:26
  • The twin paradox requires 2 meeting events for them. That is why it is said it requires acceleration. Otherwise only one meeting event is possible. What is wrong is to say that because of the acceleration, it requires GR. – Claudio Saspinski Mar 07 '21 at 02:33
  • @Claudio if you see my diagram, I have tried avoid acceleration. – Sandip Chitale Mar 07 '21 at 02:43
  • In response to your added questions, I have updated my answer---with emphasis on visualizing the readings on all observer clocks. – robphy Mar 15 '21 at 02:27

4 Answers4

3

I went ahead and uploaded an image that I had uploaded to wikipedia many years ago.

Twin scenario spacetime diagram

I'm not sure what your intended scenario is, but you state that you want to explore a scenario in which none of the clocks involved undergoes actual physical accelation, so I will proceed with a scenario that implements that.

Let's assume the setup uses atomic clocks that keep time with such a level of accuracy that the setup does not require the clocks to move at a very large velocity.

Clocks that move past each other with a constant relative velocity can be synchronized at the instant that they are at their closest proximity. I will refer to that (whimsically) as drive-by-synchronization.

The setup requires three drive-by-synchronisations.

1 At the origin. The clock that will count as the outward traveling clock has started moving earlier, the drive-by synchronization occors at the origin.

2 At the "turnaround" point. A third clock has started moving earlier, such that second and third clock pass each other at the pre-planned "turnaround" point. At that point a drive-by-synchronization is performed.

3 As the third clock moves past the first clock the amount of proper time that has elapsed is compared.


Under those conditions it will be seen that for the stationary clock (the first clock) a larger amount of proper time has elapsed than the amount of proper time as counted by the traveling clocks.

The amount of difference in elapsed proper time is given by the Minkowski metric.

Using the convention of represending spatial distance in terms of the speed of light: the amount of proper time of the traveling clocks, expressed in comparison with the proper time of the stationary clock is as follows:

$$ \tau^2 = t^2 - x^2 \qquad (1) $$

In (1) the quantity $t$ is the amount of proper time that has elapsed for the stationary clock, and $\tau$ is the amount of proper time that has elapsed for the traveling time keeping.

Note especially that (1) does not contain a term that represents velocity, nor one that represents acceleration.

To assess difference in amount of elapsed proper time it is sufficient to evaluate (1).
Of course, if the setup does involve physical acceleration then you have to set up an integration. What that integration does is to evaluate a concatenation of short spatial distances.

The point is: whatever integration that is done is a mathematical operation to accommodate the specific circumstances of a setup; in terms of the physics taking place expression (1) is exhaustive.


In structure the Minkowski metric is analogous to Pythagoras' theorem. Both in the case of Pythagoras's theorem and in the case of the Minkowski metric the units that go into the expression are squared. The one difference of course is that minus sign.

In Euclidean space, if you travel from point A to point B along a path that is not a straight line you cover a spatial distance that is longer than that of the straight line.

Pythagoras' theorem expresses the metric of Euclidean space.

The Minkowski metric expresses the metric of Minkowski spacetime. In Minkowski spacetime if you travel from point A to point B along a path that is not a straight line the amount of proper time that elapses for you is less than when moving along a straight line.


Special relativity does not explain why the Minkowski metric has the form that it has. The Minkowski metric is something that you have to grant in order to formulate special relativity at all. With the Minkowski metric granted all aspects of special relativity follow logically.

Cleonis
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  • I had seen explanations based on acceleration (which even Richard Feynman (mistakenly according to Sean Carroll), seems to have attributed the asymmetry in the twin-paradox to acceleration - albeit short lived). Some later explanations use the same clock at turnaround jumping the inertial frame from outgoing to incoming as the cause, as same twin is assumed to come back. That is why I am trying to eliminate both and see what explains the twin-paradox. As per your last paragraph, it kind of actually does not explain but requires Minkowski metric to be granted. I am after that I guess. – Sandip Chitale Mar 06 '21 at 22:56
  • BTW I also understand that simultaneity at distant points is a meaningless concept in SR. May be globally it is, but well defined between two inertial frames and hence the red and purple lines in your diagram. In any case not sure the connection of that. I thought the lengths of spacetime segments is the only relevant here. – Sandip Chitale Mar 06 '21 at 23:00
  • @SandipChitale In the transition from newtonian dynamics to special relativity only demonstration of self-consistency is meaningful at all. Discussions of the twin scenario consist of demonstration that given the concept of Minkowski spacetime no self-contradiction can be construed. What sometimes happens is that a discussion puts a spotlight on some specific aspect of SR, offering that as "the explanation". The very act of selecting a specific feature with suggestion it is "more fundamental" than others is untenable. I recommend granting Minkowski spacetime as a single overarching concept. – Cleonis Mar 06 '21 at 23:19
  • @SandipChitale For context see the two companion spacetime diagrams: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Twins_paradox_diagram05.png and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Twins_paradox_diagram06.png If you map your own motion in a coordinate system that is co-moving with yourself then the plane of simultaneity is perpendicular to your worldline. – Cleonis Mar 06 '21 at 23:23
  • @Sandip Chitale said “have attributed the asymmetry in the twin-paradox to acceleration”. Of course, here two observers are clearly asymmetrical to one observer. So although you have removed the acceleration you have not removed asymmetry. – Dale Mar 06 '21 at 23:31
  • @Cleonis so does the change in direction of motion in spatial paths on which the elapsed duration is being counted the explanation of the asymmetry? Because for moving clocks that causes the gap(skipping over) in elapsed time - intersections of points of top blue line and bottom red line with stationary objects world line in your diagram? – Sandip Chitale Mar 07 '21 at 01:31
  • +1. You can also see this explanation in Don Lincoln's video Twin paradox: the real explanation – mmesser314 Mar 07 '21 at 01:58
  • @mmesser314 The name of that video, sporting the claim that it presents "the real explanation", is a red flag. That video is no different than the gazillion other videos. In itself that video isn't worse than the gazillion other videos, but claiming to be superior does make it worse. – Cleonis Mar 07 '21 at 09:37
  • @mmesser314 I don't really understand the main thesis of this video. According to the video, the "real explanation", to be contrasted with saying that "one observer accelerates and one does not", is that one observer "exists in two frames" and one does not. But since the only way to move between two frames is to accelerate from one to the other, I don't understand why Lincoln claims the usual explanation is wrong. – Andrew Mar 08 '21 at 12:54
  • @Andrew - He is making the same arguement that Cleonis did. The traveling twin ages less than the stay-at-home twin. But the acceleration doesn't cause the difference. You can show this by using two unaccelerated observers to keep track of the traveling twin's time. They too will show less time has passed over the traveling twin's voyage. – mmesser314 Mar 08 '21 at 15:48
  • @Cleonis - It may not be the best title, but I don't think he is claim to be better than everyone else. He is claiming that acceleration is not the real explanation. – mmesser314 Mar 08 '21 at 15:51
  • @mmesser314 I understand the argument but I don't understand how one can conclude from this that acceleration doesn't cause the difference, when acceleration is necessary for one observer to transition between two frames. Anyway I don't feel that strongly and I think this is mostly semantics. I am just not convinced to discontinue saying that acceleration is the key point when discussing the paradox. – Andrew Mar 08 '21 at 17:37
  • @mmesser314 is right. I am first trying to establish that acceleration has nothing to do with it.

    I think I am starting to get the key point. The point at which the inbound clock

    – Sandip Chitale Mar 09 '21 at 01:09
  • I think the stationary clock and outbound clock can be treated symmetrically. And the situation will remain symmetrical if the outbound clock just continues forever. – Sandip Chitale Mar 09 '21 at 01:22
  • I think I am starting to get the key point. The (handover) point at which the inbound clock gets to start the stopwatch, to count the duration of it's inbound journey gives it a big (jump) head start to effectively give the total shorter elapsed time. In other words if there was no outbound clock, but the inbound clock started the stopwatch exactly the same point where handover happens then it would still record the same, shorter duration. – Sandip Chitale Mar 09 '21 at 01:22
  • So the key explanation is the upward tilt of space axis for the inbound clock, relative to the simultaneity plane of the stationary clock at the point of handover is where the shorter duration of inbound clock comes into play. – Sandip Chitale Mar 09 '21 at 01:23
  • In other words the scenario of the top half of the spacetime diagrams above really provide the significant bits. The "inboundness" seems to be the key for shorter duration counted by the inbound clock. And the symmetry will/should restore again if the inbound clock continues past the stationary clock, right?. – Sandip Chitale Mar 09 '21 at 01:26
  • Both the inbound and outbound clocks are ticking more slowly than the Earthbound clock (as measured in the Earth frame), so I'm not sure what you mean by "the symmetry will/should restore again if the inbound clock continues past the stationary clock". The symmetry is broken because there are two clocks in use. – Eric Smith Mar 09 '21 at 01:51
  • @Eric I think the duration from handover (elbow of the spacetime diagram) point to the event when stationary and inbound clock finally meet is shorter that makes the difference. But if inbound clock continues past stationary clock then it becomes effectively outbound clock going to the left and the symmetry in inbound-clock-which-becomes-outbound-clock and stationary clock is restored.

    As you said the symmetry breaks at elbow point where the 2nd frame come into play.

    – Sandip Chitale Mar 09 '21 at 03:09
2

UPDATE: Since the OP updated the question, I have updated this answer (see below).

UPDATE2: In order to further address the comments of the OP, I have added two more spacetime diagrams.


It might be helpful to visualize the spacetime-diagram of the light-clocks involved in the Clock Effect. It provides a mechanism that can be used to operationally define how time is measured.

On rotated graph paper, it can be seen that the "light-clock diamonds" (the causal diamond between consecutive ticks of an inertial clock) have the same area [as required by lorentz invariance (since det L=1)].

Below are clocks for inertial observers RED, BLUE, and GREEN.
BLUE has velocity 0.8c(= (4/5)c ) with respect to RED, and
GREEN has velocity of -0.8c(= (-4/5)c ) with respect to RED.

These inertial light-clocks measure the proper time along these inertial paths.

  • Of course, the "traveler" who left RED and later reunites with RED undergoes acceleration since she must use a non-inertial path BLUE-THEN-GREEN (which is piecewise-inertial, but nevertheless non-inertial).
  • One can imagine the "traveler" releasing the BLUE clock and grabbing onto [or merely traveling along with] the GREEN clock, or merely using the clocks along those inertial worldlines. These clocks are inertial.
  • One can also imagine the "traveler" carrying her own clock along the piecewise-inertial worldline, which must match the intervals with the corresponding inertial clock alongside on that inertial portion of the trip.(*) In this case, the "traveler"-clock also undergoes acceleration.
  • (*) From Geroch's General Relativity from A to B, p. 80:

The upshot of our property of clocks is this. Given any world- line of a particle, one acquires an assignment of times to points of that world-line. (Physically, the assignment is obtained by carrying a clock alongside the particle, and using the readings of the clock to obtain the "times.") This assignment of "times" to the points of the world-line of any particle is unique as far as time differences are concerned. (Here is where we are using our property of clocks. When we say "carry a clock alongside the particle" we do not specify the past history of the clock. We are thus assuming implicitly that ticking rates are independent of past history.) To summarize, world-lines of particles now acquire time-functions.

UPDATED
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/8kr9uc9zwu
(v.9e of my spacetime diagrammer [for the Twin Paradox / Clock Effect] )
robphy-RRGP-Desmos-9e


Update

To answer your questions, you can read off information from my diagram.
This approach is a "visualization of proper time" by visualizing the spacetime-diagram of a light-clock,.

My interactive Desmos application has some features that can be turned on: "simultaneity" and "time dilation" and "doppler".

"Simultaneity" is identified by the spacelike diagonal of the observer diamonds.

I'll address your added questions below this diagram.
Note that the traveler in the diagram has, by counting diamonds,

  • speed = (4/5)c = 0.8c, there and back.

  • the time-dilation factor $\gamma =\ 5/3 $.
    Hence, (5)=(5/3)(3) along RED's simultaneity (your "S")
    and (3)=(5/3)(9/5)=(5/3)(1.8) along BLUE's simultaneity (your "outbound O").
    --Refer to the diagram above.--

  • Doppler factor $k=3$, which is associated with the stretching of the diamonds, by a factor 3 in forward direction and by 1/3 in the other direction.
    Follow the worldlines of light-rays along the light-cones.
    robphy-RRGP-Doppler


There is an important subtlety involving such "videos":
one needs to distinguish

  • "simultaneity of distant events" (the "assignment of t-coordinates" done by each observer using radar-measurements or a line of distant clocks associated with the observer) following the lines parallel to the clock's spacelike diamond-diagonals. This involves "time-dilation". This is essentially "map making".
  • "visual appearance" (the "seeing" done by each observer using light-signals that are received on that observer's worldline) following lines along the light-cones (along 45-degree lines, the diamond-edges). This involves the "Doppler effect". This is essentially "viewing a movie [of light-rays striking your eye or film]".

Onward to your questions...

  • Will the S video section AB align O video section AM ?
    robphy-RRGP-eventB

NO.

According to S

  • event B (on S @ 1.8) occurs at t=1.8 according to S

  • event M (on O @ 3) occurs at t=5 according to S (see the first diagram)

  • If S makes an animated chart (an animated spacetime diagram) that develops as S's clock evolves, when B appears at t=1.8, the event Bsim (on O @ 1.08) on O's worldline appears. S assigns both events t=1.8 and says that B and Bsim are simultaneous. (Why 1.08? That's 1.8/(5/3), from Time Dilation. Think similar triangles, comparing with first diagram.)

  • If S makes a movie with a camera (receiving light from outbound observer O), when B appears at t=1.8, the light-flash-signal from the event Bpas (on O @ 0.6 ) appears in the movie. Imagine that each clock emits the light on its display telling the time. All S can say is that when S's clock reads (at B) 1.8, S received light from O with the reading of 0.6. (Why 0.6? That's 1.8/(3), from Doppler.)

According to O

  • event B (on S @ 1.8) occurs at t=3 according to O

  • event M (on O @ 3) occurs at t=3 according to O

  • If O makes an animated chart (an animated spacetime diagram) that develops as O's clock evolves, when B appears at t=3, the event M (on O @ 3) on O's worldline appears. S assigns both events t=3 and says that B and M are simultaneous.

  • If O makes a movie with a camera (receiving light from observer S), when B appears at t=3, the light-flash-signal from event B (on S @ 1.8 ) appears in the movie. Imagine that each clock emits the light on its display telling the time. All O can say is that when O's clock reads (at M) 3, O received light from S with the reading of 1.8.

  • What would O say when O's clock reads 1.8?
    O obtains the same results when O's clock reads 1.8 that S obtained when S's clock reads 1.8 ...in accordance with the principle of relativity since O and S have been inertial observers since their separation event.

robphy-RRGP-whenOis1.8

I think this gives you enough of a headstart (and an interactive tool) to answer the rest of your questions.


UPDATE 2

My Desmos application has a "boost" feature to view the situation from different frames. (In this version, the rotated graph paper grid for the incoming leg hasn't been drawn.)

Here is the incoming leg, followed by the outgoing leg in the same spirit of my answer to another question (linked at the end) to attempt to construct a spacetime diagram for a non-inertial observer.

Stitching together the diagrams for outgoing (AM) and incoming (MZ) legs leads to a single diagram which is not a real spacetime diagram because of some peculiar features discussed in that earlier answer (linked below). For example, the inertial observer (AZ) has a discontinuous worldline in this diagram (jumps in t-assignments, irregular clock-readings, and jump in position [when the incoming leg has a different speed from the outgoing leg]). This Frankensteined diagram is clearly not equivalent to the spacetime diagram of the inertial traveler from A to Z.

By following light-rays along the light-cones (along the diamond-edges), one can track the transmission and receptions of the "clock-face images", if one want to understand what each traveler "sees" or "captures on film".

robphy-RRGP-incoming

robphy-RRGP-outgoing


For more details [including a reference to my paper], and for a discussion of how the non-inertial "traveler" is not equivalent to the inertial stay-at-home RED observer,
visit my answer https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/507592/148184
for this question What is the proper way to explain the twin paradox? .

robphy
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  • Thanks for your update. Just to be clear, in my example each video of themselves was recorded by each triplet in their own frame. S recorded themselves. O recorded themselves. I recorded themselves. At a later point the videos were bought in the same place and attempted to be aligned. Also O continued past the elbow (M) at constant speed, but stopped the recording and stopwatch at the elbow. I started recording the video at the elbow (M) and stopped the recording at Z, but continued past Z at constant speed. – Sandip Chitale Mar 15 '21 at 05:53
  • ...The key point is that as far as the duration of the experiment is concerned there is no acceleration ever. S, O and I move in their own inertial frames at constant speed. – Sandip Chitale Mar 15 '21 at 05:53
  • The key point I am trying to understand is the accrual of excess aging of S happens instantaneously? Or can be thought of as amortized over the duration of the experiment. – Sandip Chitale Mar 15 '21 at 05:55
  • @SandipChitale I have added two "boosted" diagrams taken from my Desmos visualization. You now have all of the parts you seek. You can arrange them as you wish in order to more thoroughly analyze what your seek. – robphy Mar 15 '21 at 13:21
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Acceleration has virtually no effect on the different aging experienced by the twins. That depends only on their relative velocities and how long they are apart, i.e. their relative paths through spacetime. And indeed it is possible to construct scenarios (such as you've done here) in which there is no acceleration.

The reason that acceleration is often pointed to as the explanation for the twin paradox is that it's an easy way to show that the situation is not symmetric: in the typical setup only one twin experiences acceleration, and that shows that the two twins are not at all the same. If you eliminate acceleration but have two traveling clocks instead, there's still no symmetry: one time period is experienced by a single clock (the "stay at home" clock), the other is experienced by two clocks (the outbound and inbound clocks). Again, the paths through spacetime are different.

Think of a clock as being like an odometer, but measuring time instead of space. There's no mystery if two twins leave point A and arrive at point B with different amounts showing on their odometer -- it just means that they've taken different paths from A to B.

Eric Smith
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David Morin, Introduction to Classical Mechanics, Chapter 11, p. 14: "Twin A stays on the earth, while twin B flies quickly to a distant star and back. [...] For the entire outward and return parts of the trip, B does observe A's clock running slow, but ENOUGH STRANGENESS occurs during the turning-around period to make A end up older." http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~djmorin/chap11.pdf

So, all along, the traveler sees himself aging FASTER than stationary people, but, during the short turning-around period, "enough strangeness" occurs and stationary people suddenly get very old:

"At the same time, the twin in the spaceship considers himself to be the stationary twin, and therefore as he looks back towards Earth he sees his brother ageing more slowly than himself. [...] Ah, but in order to return to Earth, the spaceship must slow down, stop moving, turn around and go back the other way. During those periods of deceleration and deceleration, it is not an inertial frame and therefore the normal rules of special relativity don't apply. When the twin in the spaceship turns around to make his journey home, the shift in his frame of reference causes his perception of his brother's age to change rapidly: he sees his brother getting suddenly older. This means that when the twins are finally reunited, the stay-at-home twin is the older of the two." http://topquark.hubpages.com/hub/Twin-Paradox

Physics Girl (4:30): "One last question. What's happening to the clocks during the period of acceleration? We still get time dilation, but we have to use a different set of rules from the general relativity. General relativity states that clocks runs slower in accelerated reference frames. So while your twin is turning around, her clock runs slower, and she sees the same thing. She sees your clock running faster than hers, so you're aging quicker. IT'S DURING THIS PERIOD OF ACCELERATION THAT YOU BECOME THE OLDER TWIN." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERgwVm9qWKA

Can you imagine anything more absurd than the sudden ageing of stationary people while the traveling twin turns around? Actually, the "enough strangeness" is a euphemism for "homogeneous gravitational field" - an incredible absurdity Einstein produced in 1918. This homogeneous gravitational field is due to the turning-around acceleration of the traveling twin and affects stationary clocks - makes them run very fast (which means that stationary people suddenly get very old):

Albert Einstein 1918: "A homogeneous gravitational field appears, that is directed towards the positive x-axis. Clock U1 is accelerated in the direction of the positive x-axis until it has reached the velocity v, then the gravitational field disappears again. An external force, acting upon U2 in the negative direction of the x-axis prevents U2 from being set in motion by the gravitational field. [...] According to the general theory of relativity, a clock will go faster the higher the gravitational potential of the location where it is located, and during partial process 3 U2 happens to be located at a higher gravitational potential than U1. The calculation shows that this speeding ahead constitutes exactly twice as much as the lagging behind during the partial processes 2 and 4." http://sciliterature.50webs.com/Dialog.htm

  • I think in my diagram above I have avoided the de/acceleration and also any clock itself jumping it's own inertial frame. Please take a look again. Also I have avoided issues like "one twin seeing the other twin age slower" etc. In my scenario, only the stop watch based measurement of duration is being considered.

    And I think I have never understood this talk of "seeing" the other twin or their clock by the first twin. Seeing requires traveling of light.

    – Sandip Chitale Mar 07 '21 at 20:46