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A lot of the explanations of the Twin Paradox rely on acceleration, non-inertial frames, and/or curved/kinked world lines to break symmetry and therefore explain why the traveling twin ages less than the stationary twin.

But doesn't the traveling twin, T, age less even if he only flies away in a perfectly straight line with no acceleration, no changes to his inertial frame, and no curved/kinked world line at all?

If that's true, then why can't we put ourselves into T's inertial frame instead and come to the opposite conclusion? T is now stationary and the previously stationary twin, S, is now moving inertially. Can't we reason similarly and assert that S should now age less than T? That seeming contradiction seems to be the crux of the twin paradox for me at least.

So what happens when we cut the Twin Paradox problem in half? Let's eliminate all acceleration, non-inertial frames, and curved/kinked world lines so that they can't possibly be explanations for time passing at different rates for twin clocks.


I want to first demonstrate in S's frame that T really does age less even just with relative inertial motion. So, let's first adopt the inertial frame of clock S.

Clock D is 4 LY distant from S and has zero velocity relative to S. Let's synchronize S and D such that when S = 0, then S also observes distant D = -4 years.

Now suppose another clock T is moving with constant velocity of 0.8c in S's frame towards D. At S = 0, T coincides with S and also happens to have T = 0.

S calculates that T will coincide with D when S = 5 years.

Einstein and Lorentz teach that in T's frame T = 3 years when T coincides with D.

Because clocks S and D are synchronized, in D's frame D = 5 years when T coincides with D.

At T = 0, T sees S = 0 at 0 distance. At T = 3 years, T sees D = 5 years at 0 distance. T knows (was told) that S and D have synchronized time in their frames. Doesn't this mean that T knows S and D have experienced the passage of more time (5 years) than T did during its journey from S to D (3 years)?

Based on this information, can't STD all agree that time actually ran only 60% as fast for T as it did for both S and D during T's journey from S to D?

Here's my question: assuming we can correctly say all of that, then why can't we reformulate the scenario entirely from T's inertial frame and similarly reason that because S and D are moving relative to T, that STD will all agree that S's and D's clocks ran slower than T's?


We can also analyze this situation from what each clock observes during the journey if that helps. Let's say that all the clocks are continuously radio broadcasting their values from long before S and T coincide to long after T and D coincide.

Let's first describe what S observes about D and T.

At S = 0, S observes D = -4 years and T fly through with T = 0 at distance 0. As T flies away from S, S observes that T's clock is running 3 times slower than itself.

At S = 9 years, S observes D = 5 years and T = 3 years at a distance of 4 LY.

At S = x years (s.t. x >= 0), S observes D = x - 4 years and T = x/3 years at a distance of x * 4 / 9 LY.

Now, let's describe what D observes about S and T.

At D = 4 years, D observes S = 0 and T = 0 at a distance of 4 LY. As T flies towards D, D observes that T's clock is running 3 times faster than itself.

At D = 5 years, D observes S = 1 years and T = 3 years at a distance of 0.

At D = x years (s.t. x <= 5 years), D observes S = x - 4 years and T = 3x - 12 years at a distance of 20 - 4x LY.

At D = 0 years, D observes S = -4 years and T = -12 years at a distance of 20 LY.

Interestingly, T appears to D to be traveling at 4 times the speed of light (i.e. - traveling 4 LY in 1 year of D's time). Of course, that's not what is actually happening. As T approaches the speed of light, then T will appear to D to cover more and more distance per unit of D's time. At the limit, T will appear to be moving with infinite speed towards D. This is just a consequence of T chasing the speed of light towards D and, therefore, compressing the information about its position into less and less of D's passage of time. If a distant cataclysmic event is moving towards us at the speed of light, then it will run through us before we can even detect its existence.

Finally, let's describe what T observes about S and D. I might get this part wrong.

At T = 0, T observes S = 0 at distance 0 and D = -4 years at distance 2.4 LY.

At T = 3 years, T observes S = 1 years at distance 2.4 LY and D = 5 years at distance 0.

In T's frame, T observes S's clock to run 3 times slower and observes D's clock to run 3 times faster than T's clock.

All of this demonstrates the seeming "paradox" that both S and T observe each others' clocks running 3 times slower than their own as they move away from each other, but when they make a direct comparison of their clocks at distance 0 (via D's synchronized clock) they all agree that less time has passed for T than S.

Is that the (half) twin paradox explained without invoking any kind of acceleration, non-inertial frames, and/or curved/kinked world lines???

I still don't fully see how this answers my original question though. Can't we reformulate the scenario entirely from T's frame and reason similarly that the now moving clocks S and D should actually run slower (i.e. - via direct comparison of T and D at distance 0)?

The scenarios seem to be the same in the sense that T and D are moving towards one another in both frames, so they will each see the other's clock running 3 times faster than their own clock. Similarly, both S and T are moving away from one another in both frames, so they will each see the other's clock running 3 times slower than their own clock.

Here's a shot in the dark: Is the asymmetry entirely due to the Lorentz length contraction in T's frame while the passage of time in SD's frame is not affected?


EDIT: Thank you all for the kind feedback! Here are a few things I learned through your answers and comments:

  1. Yes, you can flip my example around and come to the opposite conclusion. STD all agree that less time passed for T in S's frame. STD also all agree that more time passed for T in T's frame. That's symmetric relativistic time dilation.
  2. The answer to the Twin Paradox really is curved/kinked world lines for the traveling twin breaking relativistic symmetry. This can also be described as acceleration, non-inertial frames, and/or frame switching for the traveling twin.
  3. You can cut the Twin Paradox in half, somewhat like I supposed, simply by making T match D's velocity when they coincide. That will put T in S's (and D's) inertial frame and the traveler really will have only aged 3 years while S and D have aged 5 years. T's world line will then have a kink in it in all frames. People might argue that example is less tricky and complex than the original Twin Paradox. That's probably true, but the answer to both versions is the same.
  4. I was implicitly preferring S's frame and using it as my "yardstick." T's frame is every bit as valid and deserved a deeper evaluation of events from T's perspective. The main thing I was goofing up is how the passage of time / simultaneity works in T's frame.
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    The S & D clocks are synchronised in the S frame, therefore they are not synchronised in the T frame. – PM 2Ring Jan 08 '22 at 14:55
  • @JohnRennie I followed your post, but it doesn't answer my question. In my example, S and T are moving away from each other so they both observe the other's clock running 3x slower than theirs. T and D are moving towards one another, so don't they both observe the other's clock running 3x faster than theirs? If that's all right, then I think I understand how time dilation is symmetric. What I don't fully understand is how T's clock reads less when it compares its value to D's (synchronized to S in S+D's frame) at distance 0. D says 5 years passed, S says 3 years passed. Is that symmetric? – jschultz410 Jan 08 '22 at 15:31
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    Loedel diagrams can be helpful in grasping this quandary. The point is that comparing clocks across distances requires a notion of simultaneity. The key here is that both twins have different notions of simultaneity. – Maximal Ideal Jan 08 '22 at 18:10
  • @MaximalIdeal Thanks, I'll look into those. T is only directly comparing his clock to other clocks at distance 0 -- at least at the points S and D on his journey. Can he meaningfully do that?

    Everyone keeps talking about simultaneity and how T's axes of simultaneous distance and simultaneous time get rotated towards the ct = x line in S's frame of a Minkowski diag. But what I'm not getting is the physical intuition of what that means: how STD perceive events. How they see each other evolve as time passes for them in their frame. How radio / light waves travel and behave between them ...

    – jschultz410 Jan 08 '22 at 20:01
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    By trying to "cut the twin paradox in half" you just negate special relativity. If the "traveling twin" keeps the same velocity, it is impossible to say which is travelling and which is not. Only their relative velocity is meaningful. – Alfred Jan 08 '22 at 23:20
  • @Alfred I think I might be implicitly asserting that S's frame is privileged or the one about which we actually care. It certainly seems that in S's frame that more time passes for S and D than does for T. However, if we reframe everything from T's perspective, then more time passes for T in his frame than does for S and D? The thing I'm not grok'ing is what all of that exactly looks like in T's frame (e.g. - how STD all perceive each other). I think the thing that may be throwing me is that as T's axes rotate towards ct = x in S's frame, the units of T's axes also stretch out? – jschultz410 Jan 09 '22 at 07:46
  • The point is that in the other perspective things look exactly the same, reversing the names of "fixed" and "travelling". – Alfred Jan 09 '22 at 07:53
  • @Alfred I meant specifically in the example that I laid out.

    I have this, possibly incorrect, notion that when two relatively moving observers are coincident, then at that moment they will receive the same EM transmissions. I'm trying to understand what STD receive from one another in their own times and, therefore, how they will perceive one another.

    – jschultz410 Jan 09 '22 at 08:15
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    Two relatively moving observers who receive EM signals from the same source (that is, emitted at the same frequency) at the precise instant when their positions coincide do not observe the same frequency ! – Alfred Jan 09 '22 at 09:07
  • @Alfred I am aware that the signals will be red/blue shifted in frequency. But the information content encoded in the signals they receive in the moment when they are coincident are the same. I think I have correctly described what all happens in S's frame and even what T receives from S and D. However, in T's frame more time passes for T than S and D. Basically, I think my example is missing multiple clocks in T's frame. Effectively, T's line of simultaneity. Maybe I can add a clock that is synchronized and co-moving with T that is trailing 2.4 LY (in T's measurement) behind it? – jschultz410 Jan 09 '22 at 09:29
  • See my detailed answer below – Alfred Jan 09 '22 at 19:22
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    It's very difficult to try and understand SR in text form on a forum like this. I highly recommend the OP check out this playlist, esp chapter 8 on the Twin Paradox itself. Seeing it visually is a game changer https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoaVOjvkzQtyjhV55wZcdicAz5KexgKvm – RC_23 Jan 09 '22 at 20:09
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    In fact, I think this one is even better suited to your question https://youtu.be/UInlBJ4UnoQ – RC_23 Jan 09 '22 at 20:31
  • If they are twins then at some point in time they were at rest relatively to each other (at least in their mother’s womb). If there is a speed between them now this implies that at some point, one of them (or both) had to be accelerated, and therefore the symmetry is necessarily broken. – J. Manuel Jan 10 '22 at 12:18
  • @J.Manuel I addressed that point by creating "twin" clocks: clocks that are moving relatively but both read t=0 when they coincide. In my original scenario, the "traveling" clock T has always been traveling and always will be traveling relative to the "stationary" clock S. – jschultz410 Jan 10 '22 at 14:02
  • "If that's true, then why can't we put ourselves into T's inertial frame instead and come to the opposite conclusion" --- what makes you think we can't? The conclusion is that B ages slowly in A's frame. The opposite conclusion is that A ages slowly in B's frame. Both are correct. Why shouldn't they be? – WillO Feb 05 '22 at 00:41
  • @WillO "That seeming contradiction seems to be the crux of the twin paradox for me at least." What I find interesting and strange is that we all agree that if T stops at D, then T will have aged less in S's and D's frames than S and D did. But if instead of T stopping at D, D boosts into + matches T's velocity when T and D coincide, then D will have aged less than T did in T's frame. Whichever participant boosts into the other's frame will have aged less. The notion that the choice of whether T boosts into D's frame or D boosts into T's frame determines their relative aging is deeply weird. – jschultz410 Feb 05 '22 at 23:12
  • @jschultz410: You are confusing the issue by referring to "$T$'s frame", but this is ambiguous because $T$ changes frames in the middle of your story. So let's do this more carefully: We have Frame One, where $S$'s clock runs normally, $T$'s clock runs slow until his journey ends, and then $T$'s clock runs normally after that. And we have Frame Two, where $S$'s clock runs slow, $T$'s clock runs normally until he reaches his destination, and then $T$'s clock runs slow. (CONTINUED) – WillO Feb 05 '22 at 23:50
  • (CONTINUED) After $T$ reaches his destination, both he and $S$ share Frame One, so both agree that $T$'s clock ran slow for a while. In that frame, $T$ is younger than $S$.

    In Frame Two, $T$'s clock ran normally through the duration of the journey, while $S$'s clock was running slow. In that frame, $S$ is younger than $T$.

    All of this is perfectly symmetric. You are of course welcome to consider that symmetry to be "deeply weird", but I think the world would be a much weirder place if it were not symmetric.

    – WillO Feb 05 '22 at 23:50
  • @WillO We might be talking past one another. In the comment to which you just responded I laid out two different scenarios: when T reaches D either (1) T matches D's velocity, or (2) D matches T's velocity. Scenario 1 is T boosting into Frame One. Scenario 2 is D boosting into Frame Two. In scenario 1, T has aged less than D (and S) as he traveled from S to D. In scenario 2, T has aged more than D as T traveled from S to D. What's deeply strange to me is that the decision of which of D or T chooses to boost into the other's frame "suddenly" determines their relative aging by years. – jschultz410 Feb 06 '22 at 01:07
  • In Frame 1, T's clock ran slow. Then in scenario 1, T's clock speeds up and runs normally. Similarly, in Frame 2, D's clock ran slow. Then in scenario 2, D's clock speeds up and runs normally. All of that seems reasonable. What is hard for me to understand is, what does the boosting twin see? In scenario 1, T sees D's clock running slow, then as T boosts what does he see D's clock do? It seems like it must suddenly run very fast. In scenario 2, D sees T's clock running slow, then as D boosts what does he see T's clock do? It seems like it must suddenly run very fast. I do find that strange. – jschultz410 Feb 06 '22 at 01:19
  • I may be mixing up what they calculate each others' clocks as doing (i.e. - relativity of simultaneity) versus what they would actually SEE one another's clocks doing if they were using telescopes or otherwise transmitting their clocks' values to one another. I'd like to understand how the different observers directly SEE / receive one another's transmitted clocks evolve throughout the two scenarios. Changing notions of simultaneity can seemingly cause weird effects like discontinuities or enormous changes in flows of time at a distance. Transmissions don't suffer similar sudden effects. – jschultz410 Feb 06 '22 at 01:36

5 Answers5

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The time dilation effect is entirely symmetrical. When a given time, say 3 years, has passed for the travelling twin, the local time in the Earth's frame of reference (ie local to the travelling twin) will be greater than 3 years. Likewise when 3 years have passed for the stay-at-home twin, the local time (ie at Earth) in the travelling twin's frame will be greater than 3 years. You need to take the relativity of simultaneity into account.

In your own attempted explanation, you are making the task more complicated by imagining what S and D see from a distance. There is no need for that, and you have confused yourself by taking it into account.

Time dilation arises because the planes of simultaneity of S and T are tilted relative to each other. If you imagine that T is towing a long line of clocks, each of which is synchronised in T's frame, those clocks will all appear our of synch in S's frame, just as all the clocks in S's frame seem out of synch to T.

If we take the specific scenario you outlined, when T arrives at D with 3 years showing on T's clock and 5 years showing on D's clock, the moment of T's arrival is simultaneous in the Earth's frame with a time of 5 years showing on S's clock, just as it does at D. However, those two events are not simultaneous in T's frame. When 5 years shows on the clock at S, a passing clock trailed by T will show 8.33 years. Likewise when 3 years first showed on the clock at S, a passing clock trailed by T would show 5 years, so the clock at S seems time dilated in T's frame just as the clock at T seems time dilated in S's frame. In fact, all the clocks tick at exactly the same rate- the effect of time dilation arises from the fact that the time axes of the two reference frames are tilted relative to each other.

Marco Ocram
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  • Can you point out where my reasoning in the example I gave is wrong? The 0.8c traveling twin clock reaches his destination after 3 years of his time. He then compares his clock to a coincident clock (at distance 0) that was stationary relative to and synchronized with the starting point. That clock says 5 years have passed since the traveler was coincident with the starting point. This sure seems to indicate that less time has actually passed for the traveling twin than the stationary twin. What I can't fully figure out is why you can't flip the analysis and come to the opposite conclusion? – jschultz410 Jan 08 '22 at 14:54
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    You can flip it and come to the opposite conclusion. I will extend my answer to explain it for you. – Marco Ocram Jan 08 '22 at 14:56
  • I think I'm having trouble understanding the physical WHY the line of simultaneity gets tilted between the two frames. I thought I had found a neat trick whereby T could effectively directly, meaningfully, and immediately be compared to S at distance 0 by consulting D. 3 years have passed in T's frame and he can see D's synchronized clock reads 5 years at zero distance. How can that not mean the traveling twin has aged less than his twin? How is it really different than if the twin somehow magically transported to D when T arrived there? His clock effectively did. – jschultz410 Jan 08 '22 at 16:08
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    You are still not taking simultaneity into account. In S's frame, S being 5 years older and T being 3 years older are simultaneous events- they are not simultaneous events in T's frame. In T's frame, T being 3 years older is simultaneous with S being 1.8 years older. – Marco Ocram Jan 08 '22 at 18:10
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    A failure to understand or take into account the relativity of simultaneity is the cause off all the paradoxes of SR and of 95% of the SR questions on this site, so I really really really urge you to try to get your head around it. Please ask for help if you can't. – Marco Ocram Jan 08 '22 at 18:11
  • If you want to understand why the axis of simultaneity are tilted, please refer to this video. In fact I would recommend most people introducing themselves into relativity to watch the entire series on relativity by eingenchris. – J. Manuel Jan 11 '22 at 09:02
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You are mixing a few things up. To synchronise two clocks S and D, S has to send a signal to D first (because D and S are not in the same location), and make it active such that S and D become synchronized.

Here is the catch: It doesn't matter when or how S does this, in S' frame (who has been moving with velocity vx with respect to S since the eternity) D and S remain unsynchronized. For example, assume that at S(t=0), S and S' are in the same location and their clock is synchronized. Also S has put a laser between him/herself and D at L = 2Ly. Now, if at S(t=-2y) this laser becomes activated and send a signal toward S and D at the same time (since laser is at rest with respect to S and D) according to S, D and S clocks two years later become active at the same time, so they will be synchronized. According to S' however, the light signal arrive at D much much sooner than S because after all D is moving toward the light signal while S is moving further away from it (you can use Lorentz transformation for time as well, it gives the sane result), thus S' claims that D and S are not synchronized and D has been activated a lot sooner than S. So even though S' might see D shows 5y, but he doesn't conclude that S shows 5 year too, because after all S has been activated a lot later than D so S' says that nope, S is still younger than me. And that's because of perfect symmetry betwern S and S'. So your problem is assuming that S' consider S and D synchronized, while it's not true.

Paradoxy
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  • I agree that T doesn't observe S and D to be synchronized clocks (even after accounting for distance between them). While between S and D, T observes S's clock to be running 3x slower than T's and T observes D's clock to be running 3x faster than T's, so the clocks can't be synchronized from T's point of view. I think this is similar to the situation when the equidistant laser is between them and shoots. But as T approaches or retreats from both S and D, then S's and D's clocks seem to run at the same rate to T? When T is between S-D, then the clocks' run rates differ. Is that right? – jschultz410 Jan 08 '22 at 15:45
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    @jschultz410 "While between S and D, T observes S's clock to be running 3x slower than T's and T observes D's clock to be running 3x faster than T's" That's 100% incorrect. Both D and S clock rate becomes 3x slower from S' point of view. However, just because they have not been activated at the same time, they are not synchronized from S' viewpoint. There is a subtle difference between relativity of simultaneously and relativity of clock rate. – Paradoxy Jan 08 '22 at 15:56
  • In T's frame, at T = 0 and D is approaching T, what time does T see from D? I thought it was -4 years, which is the same thing that S sees from D too. When D arrives at T, what time does T see from D? I thought it was 5 years. What time does T see on its own clock at that point? I thought it was 3 years. To me, it looks like T observed (i.e. - received) D's clock move forward by 9 years while T's clock only moved forward by 3 years. I was assuming the relative time progression was linear, which seems to say that T observed (i.e. - saw / received) D's clock run 3x faster than its clock? – jschultz410 Jan 08 '22 at 19:41
  • @jschultz410 if you use my procedure of synchronizing clocks D and S (it doesn't matter honestly, the answer would be the same no matter what you do) by putting a laser in the middle of them, at S(t=0) S' (or call it T if you will) clock shows t'=0 (since they are at the same location and they can synchronize their clocks). According to S, at that moment, D shows td = 0 while S' sees that D shows td=+2ys. But clock rate of D and S are the same in S' frame. They are both slow by 3x or something. Search Lorentz transformation and check the equation for time. – Paradoxy Jan 08 '22 at 21:27
  • "According to S, at that moment, D shows td = 0 while S' sees that D shows td=+2ys." You are saying S knows that when S's clock says 0 that D's also says 0 (assuming D hasn't started moving) even though D is 4 LY remote. But if S actually looks at D's clock (e.g. - is receiving video of D's clock via EM waves), then S will see -4 years because it is 4LY remote in SD's frame. By the same token, if T also looks at D's clock at {S,T} = 0, then D too will see -4 years. Both S and T receive the same radio transmission from D at {S,T}=0. – jschultz410 Jan 09 '22 at 05:56
  • @jschultz410 Yes both S' and S receive the same radio signal (they are at the same location after all), and that is the heart of Andromeda paradox. However, S' still knows that the "true" time that D shows at that moment is td = +2y . Just like S, who knows td = 0 in reality regardless of what he "sees" from his telescope. Besides, as S' gets closer and closer to D, he sees more updated version of D gradually to the point that when he arrives at D, he will see D shows 5ys. The relativity of simultaneously has nothing to do with what observers "see" but with that they perceive to be true. – Paradoxy Jan 09 '22 at 09:40
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Your mistake is that you do not understand all the complexity of the Lorentz transformation. It does mix time and space in a much more complicated way than you think.

First I want to correct some mistakes of some other answers. Since S and D are in the same inertial frame their clocks can indeed be synchronized, they can first leisurely measure their relative distance, 4 LY. Then S sets its clock at t=0 at the precise time T passes in front of S with V=0.8c. S immediately sends a signal, telling D it is 0 for him; on reception D sets his clock at 4 years, and immediately confirms to S and S gets D's signal at time 8 years, no problem at all.

Assume T is in a huge spaceship, more than 12 LY long, say.

Because of length contraction, at the instant T passes S, the point of T's spaceship facing D when D's clock says t=0 is not the point 4 LY ahead of T in T's frame for instance as written on T's spaceship. This point, at the time when in the frame of S and D, all synchronized clocks of that frame show zero, is only 2.4 LY from S. The point in front of D at that time must be at 6.666 LY as written on T's spaceship so that length contraction makes it appear to be at 4 LY from S, just in front of D. But of course all the distances written on T's spaceship appear wrong to all observers in S and D frame.

Now is the very important point.

For all observers in the frame of S and D, T is at 4 LY from D, propagating at 0.8c and reaches D after 5 years. And because of time contraction, D knows that, if T's notes down the time ${\frak {t}}$ at its clock "in passing" with S when they cross, then it will only register 3 years more by the time it reaches D.

But what time is it now in T's spaceship at the point U just fronting D ?

It cannot be ${\frak {t}}$ !

On T's spaceship, this point U it is 6,6666 LY from T. The frame of S and D is moving at speed -0.8c, so it is contracted. For all the observers in T's spaceship, the lengths, as written on the frame of the frame of S and D ,are wrong. The length on the frame of S and D till the point facing point T, 6,6666 LY away, must read as 11,1111 LY not just 4 LY away as S is ! In T's spaceship, at the time ${\frak {t'}}$ when D is seen showing time t=0 in front of U, T is still very, very far from S. Or, rather, S is still very, very far from T because T is fixed and S is moving towards T. So this instant, when D at t=0 crosses U, is at a time ${\frak {t'}}$ long before ${\frak {t}}$

How long will it take, as seen from T's spaceship, for D to reach T ? D is facing U, 6,6666 LY away from T. At speed 0.8c, it will take 8.3333 years. Of course, because of time contraction for D it will only take 5 years. As expected !

But the point is that even though clocks on the frame common to S and T clocks can perfectly be synchronized, there is something that does not happen as you expect. The events "T passes S" and "U passes D" are at the same time $t=0$ in that frame but not at the same time in the frame of T and U.

In that frame, if T passes S at ${\frak {t}}$, T passes D at ${\frak {t}+3}$ But if D passes U at ${\frak {t'}}$, then D passes T at ${\frak {t'}+8.33333}$ which is the same as ${\frak {t}+3}$ since it is the same event.

Therefore ${\frak {t'}=\frak {t}-5.33333}$

T is still very very far from S when U passes D, or, rather, S is still very very far from T when U passes D as seen in the spaceship of T and U.

Two events that are not at the same place can be seen as simultaneous in one frame (that of S and D) but different in another one (that of T and U).

Alfred
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  • So, it seems like I analyzed the situation almost entirely from S's (and D's) frame. I think I will need to sit and play with the Lorentz transform for a while to follow the reasoning and numbers you laid out. Thanks! – jschultz410 Jan 10 '22 at 23:40
  • @jschultz410 Yes. To see the symmetry you have to analyze from the frame of T (and the observer U have introduced in the same frame) – Alfred Jan 10 '22 at 23:43
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Summary of below:

  • Your numerical calculations seem correct. They are in accord with a spacetime diagram I drew.
  • After clarifying some terms, I re-interpret some of your calculations.
  • There is no clock effect or twin paradox to consider since there is no reunion event.

"A spacetime diagram is worth a thousand words."

This spacetime diagram is useful in verifying and clarifying all of your measurements. A diamond represents the light-signals in one tick of a light-clock carried by an inertial observer, and it provides the tickmarks in time and space for that observer. By Lorentz-invariance (since the determinant of the boost is 1), the areas of these "clock"-diamonds are equal. The "rotated graph paper" helps us draw the diamonds and do calculations.

Note that the timelike-diagonal of a diamond is along the worldline,
and the spacelike-diagonal is parallel to the line (hyperplane) of simultaneity for that worldline. That the spacelike-diagonals of all diamonds are not all parallel is the relativity of simultaneity.

I have introduced "clock U" to be analogous to "clock D".

robphy-RRGP-CuttingTheTwinParadox

For instance,

Clock D is 4 LY distant from S and has zero velocity relative to S. Let's synchronize S and D such that when S = 0, then S also observes distant D = -4 years.

Your "when S = 0, then S also observes distant D = -4 years"
means "When the clock-S reads 0, it receives a light-signal from clock-D emitted when clock-D read -4." So, S "sees" the images of S's 0-tick and D's (-4)-tick.
In your post, "observes" means "receives a light-signal".

On the diagram, draw the past light-cone [along the grid lines] of event O (where inertial clocks S and T met). The past-cone meets clock-D when clock-D read -4.

All of your numerical values are consistent with this diagram.
So, that's good.


Some comments on terms. [In (1+1)-Minkowski spacetime...]

  • proper-time of a worldline segment: the elapsed time on wristwatch carried along that worldline. This time is used to assign the "length of the worldline-segment in Minkowski spacetime"... [and in a Galilean spacetime].

  • time-dilation relates two spacelike-related events on inertial worldlines that met at one event (call it O). The measurer is usually interested in a distant event P' and uses a local event P on her worldline that she says is simultaneous with distant event P'. (See the diagram below.)
    OP is the timelike leg of a Minkowski-right triangle, and PP' is the spacelike leg orthogonal to OP. OP' is the timelike hypotenuse. If $\theta$ is the rapidity-angle between OP and OP', then OP is the adjacent side. The time dilation factor is the "ratio of the apparent time-difference between O and P' " Clock-S said that $OP'$ took [has a time-component] 5 years, while Clock-T who experienced both O and P' said $OP'$ took [has a time-component] 3 years.

$$\gamma=\cosh\theta=\frac{adj}{hyp}=\frac{OP}{OP'}=\frac{5}{3}, \mbox{ where } v=\tanh\theta=\frac{opp}{adj}=\frac{PP'}{OP}=\frac{4}{5}.$$

As others have noted, this is a symmetric situation between two inertial observers.
Although P and P' are not simultaneous according to the other observer (like clock-T), there is another pair of events that are simultaneous to that observer. That observer will determine the same time dilation factor.
One can draw the analogous diagram above in the frame where clock-T is at rest. But one can learn to read the relations off of the diagram in the S's frame. (See the diagram below with additional features. Can you see the 5-4-3 triangle that is Minkowski-isometric to OPP' with legs parallel to T's diamond-diagonals and hypotenuse 3 on S's worldline?)
This answers your first question.


  • Clock effect: Between two [timelike-related] events (say O and Z), the elapsed wristwatch time of a worldline from O to Z depends on particular worldline. The inertial worldline from 0 to Z logs the most elapsed time, while any other worldline from 0 to Z logs a shorter elapsed time.

    In the simplest case, this is akin to the triangle-inequality in Euclidean geometry, but it's reversed in Minkowski spacetime: the inertial-worldline OZ is longer than the sum of the "lengths" (as measured by their wristwatches) of the other two legs, OQ and QZ (two inertial-legs which form a non-inertial worldline OQZ).

    It can be interpreted here as two sequential time-dilation problems,
    and is likely the reason for the title of the OP's question.
    Note: if there is no separation event and reunion event between the two clock-worldlines,
    there is no clock effect (and no twin paradox) to discuss.

  • Twin Paradox: Assuming the Clock Effect is established, the so-called paradox is the attempt to study the problem from view of the non-inertial observer, somehow claiming equivalence with the inertial observer by invoking the principle of relativity. If successful, then this would invalidate the clock effect--leading to no route-dependence of elapsed proper time from O to Z.

    This effectively takes the triangle above and straightens the bent path, but at the expense of breaking the inertial leg and making it discontinuous. (Details at https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/507592 .)

    The Euclidean analogue of this like trying to make the two legs of the original triangle straight and forming a triangle that would analogously satisfy a similar triangle inequality.... but this too would come at the expense of breaking the initially straight segment and making it discontinuous.

    My punchline for the Twin Paradox: "Being able-to-be-at-rest" ≠ "Being inertial".

Again, in your question, there is no clock effect (and no twin paradox) to discuss.*


  • Doppler effect relates two lightlike-related events on inertial worldlines that met at one event (call it O) (or, more generally, a pair of events on one worldline that are (both future- or both past-) lightlike-related to a pair on the other worldline). This is the ratio of the period of signal-reception to the period of signal-transmission.

    This is featured when you say

At S = 0, S observes D = -4 years and T fly through with T = 0 at distance 0. As T flies away from S, S observes that T's clock is running 3 times slower than itself.

On the diagram below, the Doppler factor $$k=\exp\theta=\frac{OP'}{OA}=\frac{\Delta t_{rec\ by\ T}}{\Delta t_{trans\ by\ S}}=\frac{3}{1}=3.$$ $$k=\exp\theta=\frac{\Delta t_{rec\ by\ S}}{\Delta t_{trans\ by\ T}}=\frac{3}{1}=3.$$ I would not describe it as you do "T's clock is running 3 times slower".
I would describe it as above: the ratio of reception-period to transmission-period.

(By the way, this "3" is the reason T's diamonds are stretched in one direction by a factor of 3 and shrunk in the other direction by a factor of 3 (to keep the area unchanged). $k$ and its reciprocal are the eigenvalues of the Lorentz boost transformation.)

robphy-RRGP-CuttingTheTwinParadox-doppler-updated

Finally, you say

Interestingly, T appears to D to be traveling at 4 times the speed of light (i.e. - traveling 4 LY in 1 year of D's time). Of course, that's not what is actually happening.

The signal from event O (when and where clock-T reads 0) is received by clock-D when clock-D reads 4.

Clock-T meets clock-D when clock-T reads 3 and clock-D reads 5.

Of course, the velocity of clock T according to clock D is "4 LY / 5 Y", using the Minkowski-right-triangle with legs parallel to clock-D's diamonds and with hypotenuse OP'.

Your use of "appears" refers to "4LY" (the spatial-leg) and the segment between clock-D's 4th and 5th Y, which is not the usual rise-over-run.
By this logic, you would have to say that "a light ray appears to travel with infinite speed" since a light ray emitted at event O (by clock T) meets clock-D's at clock-D's 4th tick, before clock-T itself meets clock-D.
So, I don't think this is useful.
(It sounds provocative, but is likely to be misunderstood.)


I don't understand your last question.
But I don't think length-contraction is needed in any of these discussions.

robphy
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  • Thank you for your very detailed answer! On "a light ray appears to travel with infinite speed." Yes, that's right. If a cataclysmic event is rushing towards us at the speed of light, then we can't see it before it hits us. However, if a spaceship is approaching us at 99% the speed of light from 100 LY away, then we can see it before it reaches us. However, by the time we see it moving towards us we'll only have about 1 year before it reaches us. From our POV, the spaceship will appear to cover 100 LY in 1 year. I.e. - "Appears" vs. actual velocity. That was more of an interesting aside. – jschultz410 Jan 10 '22 at 03:34
  • On my last question, I think was trying to ask why T seems to age slower to S. I think the actual answers to my original questions is that for most people, they only really care about S's frame. You can cut the Twin Paradox in half if you jump the traveling twin from 0 velocity in S's frame immediately to 0.8c towards D, then drop him back to 0 velocity immediately again when he gets there. He will have aged 3 years because that is how much proper time passed for him while the trip took 5 years in S's frame. No return trip is actually necessary. It just kind of needlessly adds a second leg. – jschultz410 Jan 10 '22 at 03:49
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The key is that the synchronization method is only valid from S and D's point of view and not from T's point of view.

From S and D's point of view, the radio waves travel for 4 LY. Since they left x=0 at t=0, D should set their clock to 4 years.

But from T's point of view, the radio waves travel for only the Lorentz-contracted distance of 2.4 LY. So T believes that D should set their clock to 2.4 years.

From T's point of view, the clocks are not synchronized, and were never synchronized. It's analogous to flying across the US, leaving New York at 5pm and arriving in Los Angeles at 7pm. Did that flight take 2 hours? No, it took 5 hours because those clocks are, and always were, offset by 3 hours from one another. It's not meaningful to simply subtract those times unless T takes that offset into account.

Chris
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  • "But from T's point of view, the radio waves travel for only the Lorentz-contracted distance of 2.4 LY. So T believes that D should set their clock to 2.4 years." That might get to the core of my confusion. I'm imagining that each of STD are transmitting video of their local clock. Or, more generally, are trying to communicate with one another via EM waves. At {S,T} = 0, do ST receive the same video waves from D? Do they both receive video from D that says D's clock reads -4 years? Or do they somehow receive different images? I'm assuming they both receive the same image at T=0. – jschultz410 Jan 09 '22 at 05:49
  • Thanks! Okay, so my physical intuition isn't completely off. So, do STD all agree that in S's frame that less time has passed for T in the scenario? Then, the "paradox" is that in T's frame, they all similarly agree that more time has passed for T in the scenario? – jschultz410 Jan 09 '22 at 08:47
  • In particular, since the journey takes 3 years from T's perspective, then in T's frame only 3 - 1.6 = 1.4 years have passed for S and D? – jschultz410 Jan 09 '22 at 08:56
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    @jschultz410 Everyone always agrees on what happens from the point of view of a particular frame. Indeed in the S and D frames T's clock goes slower and in the T frame S and D's clocks go slower. – Chris Jan 09 '22 at 09:13