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I'm working through Guidry's Modern General Relativity, and there is a problem where it asks to construct the metric using the tangent and dual basis vectors provided. I have done this, and my metrics match the answer key. However, when I went to construct the line element, I used the metric derived from the dual basis vectors. The solution only has the line element using the tangent basis vectors. Since I expected the line element to be invariant, I was wondering why they aren't the same and if the tangent basis one is the correct one?

Qmechanic
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    Can you clarify what you mean by “constructing the metric using the tangent vectors provided”? Perhaps you could provide an example, since you finished the problem already. – J. Murray Jun 06 '22 at 23:55
  • so it gives the position vector <(u+v),(u-v),(2uv+w)>, and then i used this and the definition of the basis vectors to get the tangent and dual basis vectors. so the tangent basis vectors are just e_u = partialr/partialu. from here, the metric tensor is just a 3x3 tensor with components that are the dot product of these basis vectors. – Relativisticcucumber Jun 07 '22 at 00:00
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    Please clarify your specific problem or provide additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it's hard to tell exactly what you're asking. – Community Jun 07 '22 at 00:02

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If I understand the question properly, the idea is the following. We first consider Cartesian coordinates $(x,y,z)$ which induce the orthonormal coordinate basis vectors $\hat e_x,\hat e_y,\hat e_z$. We then choose new coordinates $(u,v,w)$ which are defined via $$\matrix{x=u+v\\y=u-v\\z=2uv+w}$$ The vector transformation law yields $$\hat e_u = \frac{\partial x}{\partial u}\hat e_x + \frac{\partial y}{\partial u}\hat e_y + \frac{\partial z}{\partial u}\hat e_z = \hat e_x + \hat e_y+2v\hat e_z$$ and similarly for the others. As a result, the components of the metric become e.g. $$\matrix{g_{uu} \equiv \hat e_u\cdot \hat e_u = 2+4v^2\\g_{uv}\equiv \hat e_u\cdot \hat e_v=4uv}$$ and so on. In this framework, this is the definition of the components of the metric.

However, when I went to construct the line element, I used the metric derived from the dual basis vectors.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this, but I am guessing it's something like the following. One could also define dual basis vectors by inverting the coordinate relations to obtain $$\matrix{u = \frac{x+y}{2}\\ v=\frac{x-y}{2}\\ w=z-\frac{x^2-y^2}{2}}$$ From there, one could define a dual basis $$\hat\epsilon^u = \frac{\partial u}{\partial x} \hat e_x + \frac{\partial u}{\partial y} \hat e_y + \frac{\partial u}{\partial z} \hat e_z = \frac{1}{2}\hat e_x +\frac{1}{2}\hat e_y$$ and similarly for the rest. This basis has the special property that $\hat \epsilon^i \cdot \hat e_j = \delta^i_j$, where $i,j\in\{u,v,w\}$. My guess is that you were under the impression that $$\hat e_i \cdot \hat e_j \equiv g_{ij} \overset{?}{=} \hat \epsilon^i\cdot\hat\epsilon^j$$ but in fact this is not true (as you have seen). Instead, $\hat \epsilon^i\cdot \hat \epsilon^j\equiv \gamma^{ij}$, where $\boldsymbol\gamma$ is called the dual metric. It has the property that its components are the matrix inverse of the components of the metric $g_{ij}$, i.e.

$$\mathbf g \boldsymbol \gamma = \boldsymbol \gamma \mathbf g = \mathbb I \iff \sum_j \gamma^{ij}g_{jk} = \delta^i_j \iff \boldsymbol \gamma = \mathbf g^{-1}$$

In the Cartesian basis, the components of $\mathbf g$ are simply the identity matrix (which is its own inverse), so $g_{ij}=\gamma^{ij}$; however, this is not a general feature because $\mathbf g$ and $\boldsymbol \gamma$ are not the same in a non-orthonormal basis.

The solution only has the line element using the tangent basis vectors.

The line element is, by definition, $$\mathrm ds^2 = \sum_{i,j} g_{ij}\mathrm dx^i \mathrm dx^j$$ It's not hard to see that we can't simply substitute $g_{ij}\leftrightarrow \gamma^{ij}$ and get the same result.


why doesn't moving from tangent to dual basis qualify as change of basis?

It does - but in that case the components of the vector must change as well as the basis you choose. Explicitly, we have that $$d\mathbf r = \mathrm du \hat e_u + \mathrm dv \hat e_v + \mathrm dw \hat e_w$$ $$ds^2 = d\mathbf r \cdot d\mathbf r = g_{uu} du^2 + g_{vv} dv^2 + g_{ww} dw^2 + 2g_{uv} dudv + 2g_{vw} dvdw + 2g_{uw}dudw$$

If you want to change to the basis $\{\hat \epsilon^\mu,\hat \epsilon^v,\hat \epsilon^w\}$, then the components of $d\mathbf r$ are no longer $du,dv,$ and $dw$. Explicitly, we may write $$d\mathbf r = du \hat e_u + dv \hat e_v + dw\hat e_w = A\hat \epsilon^u + B \hat \epsilon^v + C\hat \epsilon^w$$ $$\implies \hat e_u \cdot d\mathbf r = du g_{uu} + dv g_{uv} + dw g_{uw} = A$$ and similarly for $B$ and $C$. Computing the line element in this basis would yield $$ds^2 = A^2 \gamma^{uu} + B^2\gamma^{vv} + C^2 \gamma^{ww} + 2AB \gamma^{uv} + 2BC \gamma^{vw} + 2AC \gamma^{uw}$$

which is perfectly valid.


All that being said, I should make a point to note that this formulation of differential geometry - in which "dual vectors" and "tangent vectors" live in the same vector space - is antiquated and conceptually muddy. I far prefer the more modern treatment I describe e.g. here, as well as in several related answers elsewhere. Since the latter is both conceptually cleaner and in quite widespread use, I would personally suggest you consider learning it (though of course, I'm just a person on the internet, so you may do whatever feels natural and comfortable for you).

J. Murray
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  • thanks for your answer! so why does this not contradict the statement that the line element is invariant? shouldn't we get the same line element if we are describing the same space, regardless of if we use the dual or tangent basis? ill take a look at the new formulation you mentioned in your comment for sure. i guess I see by the math why the line elements are not the same, but it's not conceptually clicking. – Relativisticcucumber Jun 07 '22 at 16:57
  • @Relativisticcucumber The line element is $d\mathbf r \cdot d\mathbf r$, where $d\mathbf r= dx\hat e_x+ dy\hat e_y + dz\hat e_z$ (or analogously in the $(u,v,w)$ coordinates). You are asking why this isn’t the same if you replace $\hat e_i$ with $\hat \epsilon^i$ but leave the components the same, and the answer is simply that in general, those are different vectors. Dot products are invariant under changes of basis, but not if you literally just pick different vectors to dot together, which is what you’re doing here. – J. Murray Jun 07 '22 at 17:09
  • okay, so what I'm caught up on is say I have these coordinates that are defined above, then I can use these to get a metric as we have shown, and then I can use this to do things like solve for the geodesic equations of motion. my understanding is that this will tell me information about how things move in this space. however, here I can start with the same coordinates and get two different line elements, thus two different equations of motion, right? why is this not a problem? doesn't this mean the physics is different depending on my (arbitrary) choice? – Relativisticcucumber Jun 07 '22 at 21:54
  • also, why doesn't moving from tangent to dual basis qualify as change of basis? – Relativisticcucumber Jun 07 '22 at 22:07
  • @Relativisticcucumber See my edit. Does that help? You aren't getting two different line elements - you're getting the line element $(ds^2=g_{\mu\nu} dx^\mu dx^\nu)$ and some other object which is not the line element $(???=\gamma^{\mu\nu} dx^\mu dx^\nu)$. – J. Murray Jun 07 '22 at 22:26