3

I'm trying to understand this highlighted sentence in Piron's "Foundations of Quantum Physics" on p. 21:

enter image description here

I know that distributivity of a lattice means $a\land (b\lor c)=(a\land b)\lor(a\land c)$ and $a\lor (b\land c)=(a\lor b)\land(a\lor c)$. But I don't know what (2.4) and (2.5) has to do with the lattice structure.

On the next page Piron draws this diagram for the lattice:

enter image description here

I also don't understand this. Since $a_\Phi < a_{\Phi\, \text {or} \,\Phi'}$ and $a_\Phi' < a_{\Phi\, \text {or} \,\Phi'}$, we can infer that $a_\Phi\lor a_{\varphi'} < a_{\Phi\, \text {or} \,\Phi'}\neq I$. Isn't it? What am I missing?

Explanation

In (2.4) and (2.5) above, $b$ and $c$ are propositions about a quantum mechanical system. The propositions are the equivalence classes of questions about that system described below.

The logical value of a question depends on the state of the system. By definition, the logical value of the question is true if any experiment performed in this state is affirmative. We introduce a transitive and reflexive relation $<$ between questions $\alpha$ and $\beta$ where $\alpha<\beta$ means that in any state when $a$ is true, $b$ is also true. The questions $\alpha$ and $\beta$ are regarded equivalent if both $\alpha < \beta$ and $\beta<\alpha$ holds. The equivalence classes of questions (the propositions) constitute such a partially ordered set $\mathscr L$ in which any pair of elements $a\in \mathscr L$ and $b\in \mathscr L$ has a least upper bound $a\lor b$ and a greatest lower bound $a\land b$. The structure $(\mathscr L,\lor,\land)$ is a lattice, since $\land$ and $\lor$ are associative, commutative and idempotent and both are absorptive against the other: $a\land (a\lor b)=a$ and $a\lor(a\land b)=a$

My thoughts about this issue

Let $b= the\, polarizer\,with\,angle\, \beta \ always\, \,transmits\, the\, photon$ and $c= the\, polarizer\,with\,angle\, \gamma \ always\, \,transmits\, the\, photon$

The notation in fig 2. would be $b=a_\beta$, $c=a_\gamma$.

Don't forget, $\lor$ desn't mean $or$. It is the lower upper bound of $b$ and $c$. Formulating in words, $b\lor c$ is the proposition "it is always true that the polarizer with angle $\beta$ or the polarizer with angle $\gamma$ transmits the photon. In the superposition state of state belong to $b=true$ and the state belong to $c=true$ , $b = false$, $c = false$ and $b\lor c = true$.

Then taking a proposition $a = true$,

$a\land (b\lor c) = true$ but $(a\land b)\lor (a\land c)=false$

This means the absence of distributivity, so it's OK.

(This is evidently wrong, since $1\land b = b$, $1\land c = c$, so if $a=1$ then $(a\land b)\lor(a\land c)=b\lor c=1\land (b\lor c) = a\land (b\lor c)$. So the non-distributivity is still not clear to me.)

But this contradicts the schema in fig. 2-1.

mma
  • 644
  • Answer is not possible until you provide further information about the notation being adopted. e.g. what are a,b,c? Are they classical binary logic, or some sort of way or referring to quantum amplitude, or states, etc? (Questions should be self-contained so that we don't have to read book referred to in order to answer). – Andrew Steane Aug 29 '22 at 13:31
  • @AndrewSteane I've added the necessary explanation. – mma Aug 30 '22 at 05:11
  • ok this is clear, but this way of discussing quantum physics will be unfamiliar to most physicists (it is to me, and I use quantum physics all the time...) – Andrew Steane Aug 30 '22 at 08:11
  • OK. I've added the mathematical physics tag too. – mma Aug 30 '22 at 09:23
  • 1
    @mma: Judging by your profile, you're a mathematician. Do you know the book Geometry of Quantum Theory, by Varadarajan? I remember it to be a good complement to Piron's book, since Piron's text is both more insightful and more sloppy. The book of Valter Moretti is also very good but doesn't cover much the "quantum logic" subject. – Plop Sep 01 '22 at 10:13

3 Answers3

2

The point is that if $\land$ and $\vee$ corresponded exactly to classical and and or, then they would be distributive simply because the classical operators are distributive. It does not follow from the small excerpt you've presented that it is specifically distributivity that fails here - this must follow from your specific definitions of $\land$ and $\vee$, not from the generic fact that they're different from and and or. Valter Moretti explains the non-distributivity of the lattice of quantum probabilities in terms of Hilbert space projectors in this answer, particularly addendum 1.

ACuriousMind
  • 124,833
  • I don't think $\land$ and $\lor$ correspond to classical *and and or, see the addendum to my question "My thoughts about this issue". – mma Aug 31 '22 at 04:46
  • 1
    @mma I'm not saying that they correspond to the classical operators. I'm saying the point of the quoted section is that if they corresponded to them, then they would necessarily have distributivity. – ACuriousMind Aug 31 '22 at 09:05
  • I think I finally understood what you meant, see in my answer – mma Sep 05 '22 at 07:25
1

First of all, nowadays, one learns it logic courses that "truth" is a complex notion, and in particular that "truth" per se has no real meaning; only "truth within a certain domain of interpretation" has one. Therefore, a sentence like "$b$ is true" has to be interpreted in some way, and I hope it is in the way that I stated my answer below.

Moreover, in logic, when dealing with something to be thought as a "set of propositions" (such as a lattice, a Boolean algebra, etc.), it is kind of a subtelty to distinguish between formal equality of two formulas and some kind of equivalence between them. For example, when one tries to define logic in full rigor, one first defines strings of characters, and at this low level, for example, one can consider that $(a\wedge b) \neq a\wedge b$. The highest (on the scale of abstraction) level of equivalence is to say that two propositions $a$ and $b$ are equivalent if $a\Leftrightarrow b$ is provable, within some implicit logical framework. It turns out that for quite a number of logics, this equivalence is the same as semantic equivalence, for which two propositions $a$ and $b$ are equivalent if, within every possible domain of interpretation of the formulas, they are both true or both false. Since Piron talks about "truth" and "falseness", I guess that it is correct to interpret his claim as stating a sort of semantic equivalence.

Let $L$ be a set, $\wedge,\vee : L\times L \rightarrow L$. Call a map $t: L \rightarrow \{\top,\bot\}$ a truth assignment if $\forall a,b \in L,\ t(a\wedge b) = \top \Leftrightarrow t(a) = t(b) = \top$ and $\forall a,b \in L,\ t(a\vee b) = \top \Leftrightarrow \left(t(a) = \top \ \textbf{or}\ t(b) = \top\right)$.

We say that two elements $a,b \in L$ are semantically equivalent if for all truth assignment $t$, $t(a) = t(b)$. Note that in classical logic, semantic equivalence is the same as logical equivalence.

Proposition: For all $a,b,c \in L$, $a \wedge (b \vee c)$ and $(a\wedge b) \vee (a\wedge c)$ are semantically equivalent.

Proof: Just examine all the cases! I'll look at one case, as an example. Let $t$ be a truth assignment. Assume that $t(a \wedge (b \vee c)) = \top$. Then $t(a) = \top$ and either $t(b) = \top$ or $t(c) = \top$. Assume $t(b) = \top$. Then $t(a\wedge b) = \top$, then $t((a\wedge b)\vee (a\wedge c)) = \top$. We can argue similarly when $t(c) = \top$.

As for the diagram, it represents the lattice of propositions on a two-dimensional Hilbert space. One can assume that this space represents the system consisting in a single photon, and every nontrivial proposition is of the form "the photon goes out of the polarizer with some angle". If one denotes $a_\phi$ the proposition "the photon goes out of the polarizer with angle $\phi$", what does $a_{\phi\ or\ \phi'}$ mean? Should it mean "the photon goes out of the polarizer with angle $\phi$ when put in, or goes out of the polarizer with angle $\phi'$ when put in"? Such a proposition does not exist: for opposite angles $\phi$ and $\phi'$, such a proposition would be greater or equal than $a_\phi \vee a_{\phi'} = true$, so would be $true$. However, any photon that goes out of a polarizer with a different angle would sometimes, in one of the $\phi$ and $\phi'$ polarizers, not go out, so $a_{\phi \ or \ \phi'}$ cannot be a valid quantum proposition.

Plop
  • 537
  • "either $t(a\vee b) = \top$ or $t(a\vee c)= \top$" doesn't imply $t((a\vee b) \color{red}\wedge (a\vee c)) = \top$, it implies only $t((a\vee b) \color{red}\vee (a\vee c)) = \top$. – mma Sep 01 '22 at 17:36
  • Oh, right, but it works anyway, hahahaha! I edited my answer. – Plop Sep 01 '22 at 21:32
  • Do you want me to write the rest of the proof? Also, if you’re not convinced by the approach, I can argue a bit! – Plop Sep 01 '22 at 21:38
  • OK. But what does this proposition have to do with distributivity or non-distributivity and the diagram? – mma Sep 02 '22 at 04:36
  • I edited my answer to expand a bit and try to answer your question on the diagram. – Plop Sep 02 '22 at 07:28
  • The logical assignment to a question about a physical quantity is performed by a measurement of this physical quantity. In the case of the polarization experiment, there isn't a general $t:\mathscr L\to {\top,\bot }$ assignment, only $t_\phi: \mathbb Z\times 2^{T_\phi}\to {\top,\bot}:(i, x)\mapsto t_\phi(i,x)$ assignments for the $i$-th measurement in angle $\phi$. – mma Sep 06 '22 at 03:47
  • But each time the result of a measurement isn't "sure", then sometimes it gives "true", sometimes "false". So "the logical assignment to a question about a physical quantity is performed by a measurement" is undefined. I mean, sure, you could perform all polarization measurements one by one following a precise order, but it would certainly not give you a valid truth assignment. See for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcqZHYo7ONs. – Plop Sep 06 '22 at 07:00
  • In this example, measuring at angle $\phi$, then at a different angle $\theta$ and then at the opposite angle $\phi'$ may give you "true" and "true" and "true". However, no truth assignment can give map both $a_\phi$ and $a_{\phi'}$ to "true" (since it would then map $\bot = a_\phi \wedge a_{\phi'}$ to "true"!). – Plop Sep 06 '22 at 07:00
  • "the logical assignment to a question about a physical quantity is performed by a measurement" is not undefined. Only it is not one assignment to a question (especially not to all questions), but separate assignments to questions about each physical quantity and each measurement, i.e. they are not $2^{T_\phi} \to {\top,\bot}$ functions (especially not $\mathscr L \to {\top,\bot}$ functions), rather $\mathbb Z\times 2^{T_\phi} \to {\top,\bot}$ functions as I wrote. – mma Sep 06 '22 at 07:42
  • Hum, I don’t understand what your $\mathbb{Z}$ means… And I’m not so sure about this $2^{T_\phi}$. I would like to add that I keep commenting because I don’t understand what you write and don’t think you understood what I wrote, but if you feel that you have understood the story about these questions, we can leave it here :) I’m just trying to help, because I spent long time alone trying to understand these things. – Plop Sep 06 '22 at 11:05
  • OK, no problem. $\mathbb Z$ (the set of integers) could have been any countable index set (indexing the experiments performed) while $2^{T_\phi}$ is the power set (the set of all subsets) of $T_\phi$, i.e. (being $T_\phi$ finite) the Borel subsets of $T_\phi$. I use a different definition of "true" than Piron since I feel his definition is unnecessarily complicated. The "true" and "false" values can be assigned experiment by experiment. The lattice structure is determined by the relation $a \le b :\iff \forall i( {t_i(a)= true\implies t_i(b)=true})$. – mma Sep 07 '22 at 05:41
  • Hum, ok ok, I’m sorry but what is $T_\phi$? I think Piron is more or less using this definition, for truth. Indeed, when he says « such question is always true when the system is in such state », he is more or less saying « for all story telling that the measurement has happened, the result of the measurement is true ». – Plop Sep 07 '22 at 06:23
  • $T_\phi={0,1}$. Or $T_\phi={\phi}\times{0,1}$ if you want. The latter is more convenient because $\mathscr L$ is the disjoint union of the Borel subsets of $T_\phi$-s (mod equivalence) and with the second definition, the disjoint union becomes a normal union: $\displaystyle\mathscr L=\bigcup_{\phi}2^{T_\phi}/\sim$ – mma Sep 08 '22 at 04:23
  • So, if $i \in \mathbb{Z}$ and $x \in {0,1}$, what is $t_{\phi}(i,x)$? – Plop Sep 08 '22 at 08:45
  • The domain of $t_\phi$ is not $\mathbb Z\times{0,1}$ but $\mathbb Z\times 2^{{0,1}}=\mathbb Z \times {{},{0},{1},{0,1}}$. There are two possibilities
    1. If the $i$-the experiment with polarizer having angle $\phi$ results in the photon transmitted then $t_\phi(i,x)=\top$ if and only if $x \in {{1},{0,1}}$.
    2. If the $i$-the experiment with polarizer
    having angle $\phi$ results in the photon absorbed then
    $t_\phi(i,x)=\top$ if and only if $x \in \{\{0\},\{0,1\}\}$.
    
    – mma Sep 08 '22 at 11:45
  • Ok, ok. Do we assume that experiments $n$ and $n+1$ are done in a row? In particular, the wave-function is assumed to collapse after experiment $n$? In particular, in general, quantum mechanics predicts that if $\mathbb{Z}$ experiments are taken out, then there does not exist a single $t_\phi$ that succeeds in describing what happens (since that if at time $n$, the state of the system isn't a basis state of the $n$-th measurement, then the $n$-th measurement must sometimes give $0$ as a result, and sometimes $1$. In general there is only a set of $t$'s that describe possible "stories". – Plop Sep 08 '22 at 12:11
  • But anyway, I can't remember where we were going. – Plop Sep 08 '22 at 12:13
  • Here we are talking about only the proposition lattice, not about the whole quantum mechanics. I think we are ready with this. – mma Sep 09 '22 at 04:22
0

The key sentence in Plop's answer is the following:

$a_{\phi \ or \ \phi'}$ cannot be a valid quantum proposition.

And indeed, this is true. We can measure only with a polarizer set to angle $\phi$ or a polarizer set to angle $\phi'$, but not with both.


Starting from the beginning: for a given quantum mechanical system we have different physical quantities. For each physical quantity $\alpha$, there is a set $T_\alpha$ having its possible values. A question about the physical quantity $\alpha$ is always "Will the value of $\alpha$ fall in $S$?" where $S$ is a Borel subset of $T_\alpha$.

The proposition system (the logic of the given quantum mechanical system) consists of equivalence classes of questions (possibly about different physical quantities).

My failure was that I thought that here is about one single physical quantity with possible values $\phi\in \mathbb R/\pi$.

But I realized that I should have taken seriously that the polarization experiment is a yes/no experiment and that this means that there is a physical quantity for each $\phi$ with values in $T=\{0,1\}$. These quantities are incompatible with each other since we can measure the photon's polarization only once. If we measure in direction $\phi$ then we can't measure simultaneously in direction $\phi'\neq \phi \pmod{\pi}$. The lattice of the Borel subsets of $\{0,1\}$ is this: enter image description here In the lattice of the whole proposition system, $\{0\}$ and $\{1\}$ is different for different $\phi$-s (since they aren't equivalent), but $\{0,1\}$ (the identical true question) and $\{\}$ (the identically false question) is common (since they are equivalent for different physical quantities). So the whole proposition lattice looks similarly to Piron's diagram, only the notation should be changed: enter image description here

As for the highlighted sentence in the question, I've only just understood what ACuriousMind wanted to say and this is the following.

Eq. (2.4), (2.5) and "the converse of (2.5)" (that is $"\!\!b\lor c\ true\!\!" \implies "\!\!b\ true\!\!"\ or \ "\!\!c \ true\!\!"$) together would mean that the lattice "$(\mathscr L,\lor,\land)$ is isomorphic to the lattice $(\mathscr L',or, and)$ where $\mathscr L'=\{"\!\!x\ true\!\!":x\in\mathscr L\}$, so, since $(\mathscr L',or, and)$ is distributive, $(\mathscr L,\lor,\land)$ is also distributive.

mma
  • 644
  • 1
    As I said in my answer, "$x$ true" has no meaning per se. This is precisely why I talk about "truth assignments"! And even if it had, I don't understand why $(\mathscr{L},\vee,\wedge)$ would be isomorphic to $(\mathscr{L}',or,and)$... If $x \in \mathscr{L}$ isn't true, on what element of $\mathscr{L}'$ would you map it? – Plop Sep 05 '22 at 08:48
  • I think that this $\mathscr L'$ doesn't exist. It's all about if it did exist, it would imply the distributivity of $\mathscr L$. – mma Sep 07 '22 at 05:38