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Suppose an infinite-long thin wire is placed along $z$ axis in 3D space, with current density $\textbf{J}$ and static magnetic field $\textbf{H}$ satisfying the Ampère's law: $\nabla\times\textbf{H}=\textbf{J}$. By integrating both sides of the equation over surface $z=0$, we have \begin{equation} \int_{z=0}dxdy~\nabla\times\textbf{H}=\int_{z=0}dxdy~\textbf{J}. \end{equation} With finite magnetic field, the left-hand side of the equation is mathematically zero (think about the Fourier transform), leading to the right-hand side—the current flux—be zero as well. In this sense, there should be no current in this thin wire.

One interesting point is the infinite inductance of the wire: \begin{equation} L=\frac{2~\text{magnetic energy}}{\text{current flux}^2}=\frac{\int_\text{3D space} dV~\mu_0 |\textbf{H}|^2}{|\int_{z=0}dxdy~\textbf{J}|^2}=\frac{\text{non-zero value}}{0}=+\infty \end{equation} Perhaps explaining $L$ can help understanding.

Afterall, it is merely a thought experiment to transport electrons endlessly through the universe. But I am still wondering which setting is unphysical in this scenario: is it the infinite long wire, infinite large magnetic field, or others?


Supplementary:

The $\textbf{k}$-component of 2D Fourier transform of $\textbf{H}(\textbf{x})$ is $\tilde{\textbf{H}}(\textbf{k})=\int dxdy~\textbf{H}(\textbf{x}) e^{i\textbf{k}\cdot\textbf{r}}$. As $\textbf{k}=\text{0}$, $\tilde{\textbf{H}}(\textbf{0})=\int dxdy~\textbf{H}(\textbf{x})$. Fourier transform has the rule: $\frac{d}{dx}f(x) \rightarrow ik\tilde{f}(k)$, so $\nabla\times\textbf{H}(\textbf{x}) \rightarrow i\textbf{k}\times \tilde{\textbf{H}}(\textbf{k})$. Substitute $\textbf{k}=\textbf{0}$, then LHS of the first equation is $\textbf{0}\times\tilde{\textbf{H}}(\textbf{0})$. If $\tilde{\textbf{H}}(\textbf{0})$ is a bounded value, then LHS = 0.

XjX
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  • This seems like the magnetic analogue of this question – By Symmetry Sep 27 '22 at 13:06
  • My orginal question was to have a physical picture of the infinite energy of line current, but it was too specific. So I ask it in a stronger but general way, that is, even for the even field component (among the Fourier spectra) it is infinite. – XjX Sep 27 '22 at 16:55
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    Do infinite straight wires exist? No. Do we need them? No. What we may need are better textbooks that teach students how to make physical approximations on finite systems instead of introducing lazy infinite ones to avoid teaching proper approximation techniques for realistic systems. That's just a pet opinion of mine, of course. – FlatterMann Sep 27 '22 at 22:57
  • "The left-hand side is mathematically zero" Why do you think this? The Fourier transform has nothing to do with this. It is not zero but equals total current flowing through the surface $z=0$.

    – Ján Lalinský Mar 13 '23 at 02:37
  • LHS is the k=0 Fourier component of \nabla\timesH, and since \nabla~i k while k=0, LHS is zero @Ján Lalinský – XjX Apr 11 '23 at 20:49
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    @XjX that makes no sense. Fourier concepts do not imply anything about the system, they just describe that system in a particular way. If the premise is that there is current, then there is current and its magnetic field. – Ján Lalinský Apr 12 '23 at 00:16
  • @Ján Lalinský. I have updated the question with Supplementary, please check it if you have questions on the Fourier transform part. And... sorry if the question was asked in an exaggerated way. Let me ask it in alternative way: do you think the k=0 component of H is infinite large? It might be because it is in infinite large 2D space – XjX Apr 12 '23 at 21:06
  • You're playing fast and loose with the Fourier concepts, you should get familiar with Fourier transform calculations with example functions before applying it to physics. Your argument can be simplified and applied to integral of function of single variable $f(x)$: $I = \int_{\mathbb{R}} \frac{\partial f}{\partial x} dx$. Obviously, $I$ is not zero for all functions $f$. For example, $f=\text{sign} (x)$, or $f = -\text{sign}(x)e^{-b|x|}$. – Ján Lalinský Apr 12 '23 at 23:02
  • So your argument is invalid; in general, one can't replace $\lim_{k\to 0} k \tilde{f}(k)$ by $0.\tilde{f}(0)$. Instead, the Laurent series of $\tilde{f}(k)$ can have terms proportional to any power of $k$, including the minus first power, so $\lim_{k\to 0} k\tilde{f}(k)$ can be non-zero. – Ján Lalinský Apr 12 '23 at 23:12
  • @Ján Lalinský. Yeah You are right. Thx for the counter-examples. Yet, how do you think about this example? I think this 2D Green's function still satisfies my derivation. I also test it by numerical methods (I mean every Fourier component and the total energy); the result might be not rigorous but right. Yet I fail to have an explanation to it – XjX Apr 13 '23 at 00:05
  • Magnetic field of line current is divergent at that line. In the xy plane where the line goes through the origin, magnetic field diverges at the point $x=0,y=0$. Such function will likely have divergent Fourier transform at $k=0$, which can't be evaluated at $k=0$. – Ján Lalinský Apr 13 '23 at 00:18
  • @Ján Lalinský. Ok... then, do you agree that the total magnetic energy is infinite (or divergent such that cannot be evaluated)? – XjX Apr 13 '23 at 11:22
  • @XjX For line current, yes. More mathematically regular model is current running in a tube, with finite current density. Such system has finite magnetic energy per unit length of the wire. – Ján Lalinský Apr 13 '23 at 11:23
  • @Ján Lalinský. How is the case for two line currents flowing in counter directions? I did not simulate it but I think the energy will be finite, because it is more or less a coaxial cable as mentioned by the answer of John Doty. – XjX Apr 13 '23 at 11:28
  • Let me clarify, system with finite current density has finite energy per unit length of wire if the system is finite. For infinite wire, even energy per unit length is infinite. – Ján Lalinský Apr 13 '23 at 12:14
  • It all depends on whether wires are finite of infinite, and how the current is maintained. Better ask new question specifically about that. – Ján Lalinský Apr 13 '23 at 12:15
  • @Ján Lalinský. I see. Thx for answering this question. I will reformulate it in a better way – XjX Apr 13 '23 at 13:06
  • Let me correct, $f=-\text{sign}(x)e^{-b|x|}$ is not a good example, because it does lead to $I=0$, if we extend our definition of derivative to cover discontinuous changes. But $\text{sign}(x)$ is a good example even with that extension - for this function, $I=2$. So in the nice formula $\tilde{f'}~(k) = ik\tilde{f} (k)$ the R.H.S can't be evaluated as $0.\tilde{f}(0)$. – Ján Lalinský Apr 13 '23 at 20:07

2 Answers2

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Mathematically, the electromagnetic energy per unit length is divergent for an infinite wire supporting a finite electromagnetic field. The characteristic impedance is infinite. Thus, in principle, you cannot have current on an infinite wire. However, the divergence is logarithmic, so even in the case of an extremely long wire with the return current far away, the wire can support a substantial current.

Practical single-wire transmission lines have characteristic impedances of ~600Ω, not terribly high.

Edit in response to comment:

I don't know of a reference, but it's implicit in the usual calculation of coaxial cable impedance, as $D\rightarrow\infty$. Or, you may notice that the electric field of a linear charge is proportional to $1/r$. Integrating the with respect to $r$ yields the potential, and that diverges. So, any finite charge density on the wire should, theoretically, yield infinite potential. The puzzle to me in my student days was that I knew that real wires don't behave like that, even if they are very long. The solution is that real wires aren't infinite, and they aren't infinitely far from other conductors. The idealization that a long wire suspended in space may be assumed to be infinitely long in an empty vacuum fails.

John Doty
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  • Hmmm... but transmission lines basically have a pair of wires, with counter-flowing currents. So the total flux (RHS) can be zero. – XjX Sep 27 '22 at 17:11
  • Do you have any references on "The characteristic impedance is infinite"? I may go check it and then continue the discussion. – XjX Sep 27 '22 at 17:14
  • @XjX See edit above. – John Doty Sep 27 '22 at 22:08
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    Coaxial cable theory is based on the proper treatment of a realistic system, while infinite single wire approximations are "lazy theory" that does not want to think about how much of an effect the necessary return current has on the fields near the wire. Somebody should ask the publishers to have the best selling textbooks updated with proper approximation techniques, especially in the electrodynamics department where the lazy assumptions are all over the place. – FlatterMann Sep 27 '22 at 23:01
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The integral on the LHS is not zero. Use Stokes theorem, and realize that because $|{\bf H}|\sim 1/r$, the boundary contribution is independent of the distance from the wire.

mike stone
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  • If I use the Stokes theorem, then the LHS will be two line integrals of H, one enclosing the infnite point (which is zero), and the other enclosing x=y=0 point (which is the current flux). Is that what you mean? – XjX Sep 27 '22 at 16:37