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The gravitational $n$-body problem is well known to be uncomputable; one can not find a general algorithm that works in all cases that can predict the trajectories of $n$n-bodies. However, in contrast to our inability to compute a general solution, the universe seems perfectly capable of "predicting" the trajectories of $n$-bodies. Presumably, it does this with no error, either.

How can this be? Could this be evidence that the universe is a hypercomputer?

Qmechanic
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Gabriel
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    The universe is not a computer, and it doesn’t compute trajectories. They just happen. The gravitational n body problem is a problem related to the mathematics of a model of gravitational phenomena. – march Oct 20 '22 at 01:01
  • One can think of the universe as being a computer that functions according to the laws of physics; in fact, this is the assumption that is generally made by physicists. If this computer can "compute" things that we cannot, that begs the question of whether or not the universe would be better modelled as a hypercomputer. The question still stands. – Gabriel Oct 20 '22 at 01:05
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    Of course we can compute trajectories of n-body systems. See (for example) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_Propulsion_Laboratory_Development_Ephemeris – PM 2Ring Oct 20 '22 at 01:19
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    In general, the trajectories of an n-body system (with n>2) can't be written in the form of a simple equation, like the ellipses you get when n<3, but that's not really a problem. And even if you do have the ellipse parameters of a 2 body system, that tells you the time as a function of position. To get position as a function of time you must solve Kepler's equation, which is transcendental, and not solvable in terms of elementary functions. – PM 2Ring Oct 20 '22 at 01:26
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    OTOH, we no longer live in an era when astronomers use slide rules and log & trig tables to perform orbit calculations. It's trivial to solve Kepler's equation on a computer. – PM 2Ring Oct 20 '22 at 01:28
  • Are you calling the trajectories “uncomputable” because they can be chaotic? – Ghoster Oct 20 '22 at 03:28
  • Could this be evidence that the universe is a hypercomputer? No, it just means that if the universe is a computer, it isn’t using IEEE 754. – Ghoster Oct 20 '22 at 03:32
  • How did they ever get to the moon, if the $n$-body problem is uncomputable? – Oбжорoв Oct 21 '22 at 12:07
  • I guess one can think of the universe as a computer as an analogy (one that I don't find particularly good, but that's me), but I don't think you'll find that physicists generally make the assumption that the universe is a computer or even acts like a computer. The mathematical models that we build are maps of the universe; they don't faithfully represent the behavior of the universe just like a map doesn't faithfully represent the city. – march Oct 21 '22 at 22:19
  • @Gabriel "The trajectories themselves can be estimated to a degree of error that increases over time." True, but that doesn't only happen when integrating an n-body system, it also happens with a simple 2 body analytical solution because we don't know the initial position & velocity vectors with unlimited precision. The n-body problem isn't an issue for the modern computation of high precision ephemerides. See The JPL Planetary and Lunar Ephemerides DE440 and DE441. – PM 2Ring Oct 23 '22 at 03:46
  • @Ghoster indeed, it has to be capable of manipulating infinite-precision reals in finite time, i.e. a supertask. Which is in the domain of hypercomputers. – Gabriel Nov 21 '22 at 14:01
  • @march whether you call it a computation or an occurrence, the fact remains that the Universe actually predicts/calculates/makes the orbits of the planets "happen" - and it does so in a way that our simulations cannot. – Gabriel Jul 11 '23 at 23:34

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Well, I don't think of the universe as a computer. You've hit on one of the reasons here: the complexity of simulation increases much faster than the complexity of systems. However, complex systems have no more trouble behaving physically than simple ones do. Behavior of physical objects is, in this way, profoundly different from the behavior of the mathematical abstractions we use to model them.

John Doty
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The main issue - and difference - between the $N$-body simulations that we are capable of running on computers and the gravitational interactions in the real universe is that we discretise time into a series of time-steps in order to "step" the simulation forward.

On the other hand, in the universe, time is continuous, and is not "chopped" up into intervals of any kind. The movement of bodies is continuous through space. Therefore, when two or more bodies are interacting under gravity somewhere in the cosmos, the force - and, therefore, acceleration - experienced by each body at every moment in time changes continuously with their changing position.

In our $N$-body simulations, however, since time is discretised into a series of steps, the movement of bodies is approximated by only evaluating the forces on bodies at the beginnings and ends of time-steps. The consequence of this is an error in the precise positions (and velocities) of the bodies, since the force on the bodies was not evaluated at the infinitely many points between the times $t_n$ and $t_{n+1}$, when the force was actually changing (and so the effect of these changing forces was not reflected at all in the positions and velocities of the bodies between $t_n$ and $t_{n+1}$).

Of course, there is little that can be done about this, since, although the size of the time-step, $\Delta{t}$, can be made arbitrarily small (albeit at the cost of computation speed), it will still be infinitely larger than zero, and thus errors will always begin to accumulate.

On top of this, as you have alluded to, there is no closed-form, analytic solution to the general $N$-body problem (for $N>2$) - hence why we resort to numerical methods - so, for now, we are stuck with our current simulations! That being said, a lot of them are extremely accurate and/or impressive in the amount of bodies they can evolve based on a variety of different integration methods and/or force approximation techniques.

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Two key misconceptions in the question are:

  • The universe predicts the trajectories of n-body systems.
  • We can't compute them.

As it wanders through its phase space, the system assumes one configuration after the other. We might perhaps describe this as "calculating its next position from the current one", but here is the thing: This is something we can do as well by simple integration. We just cannot do so for the longer term, due to the system's chaotic dynamics, but then there's no reason to believe the universe is performing this long-term calculation either.

As for things we indeed can't calculate, for some cases it can be solved by changing the hardware - for instance, one of the most promising applications of future quantum computers is precisely the simulation of quantum systems. In the general case, however, Traub convincingly argues that noncomputability (in the sense of noncomputable numbers) shouldn't pose a problem to physics and the case of intractability (a concept closer to the OP's) remains an open problem.

Related questions:
Is Physics Computable?
Is the universe a Turing machine?
Computation theory and the simulation argument
What are the consequences of a non-computable universe?

stafusa
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  • If the universe doesn't perform the long-term calculation either, then the positions of the celestial bodies are calculated with an "error" value. I find it very difficult to believe that could be the case, but I admit I don't know how I could go about arguing against that. – Gabriel Oct 22 '22 at 12:04
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    @Gabriel We're using here a description where the state of the universe at time $t$ fully determines its state in the time $t'=t+\text{d}t$, without "error", from which its state at $t''=t'+\text{d}t$ is determined and so on. Why is long-term knowledge necessary for the absence of "error" (whatever that means)? – stafusa Oct 22 '22 at 12:11
  • I'm confused by what you mean by "without error". Are you saying you can calculate the trajectories with 100% accuracy? If not, then what I am saying is this: it seems reasonable to believe that the universe "determines" the correct trajectories (i.e. with no error). This is impossible to do in the general case, AFAIK. Hence, it implies that the mathematical model is either wrong, and there is another correct model which would be computable, or that the mathematical model is correct but the universe is capable of "solving" it with different methods. – Gabriel Apr 18 '23 at 11:45