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If we look at a simple cannonsball that gets shot out we quickly see the cyclic coordinate in the Lagrangian:

$$L=\frac{1}{2}m{\dot{x}}^2+\frac{1}{2}m{\dot{y}}^2-mgy$$

Since the coordinate $x$ isn't in the Lagrangian it is a cyclic coordinate. We can check this with checking the following equality:

$$\frac{\partial L}{\partial x}=0$$

This means that the conjugated momentum of $x$ is conserved. As we can see.

$$\frac{\partial L}{\partial\dot{x}}=\frac{d}{d\dot{x}}\left(\frac{1}{2}m{\dot{x}}^2+\frac{1}{2}m{\dot{y}}^2-mgy\right)$$

$$\frac{\partial L}{\partial\dot{x}}=m\dot{x}=\mathrm{constant}$$

However if we consider the same problem with polar coordinates (which would be very clumsy to do) we have a chance of missing the cyclic coordinate. The lagrangian would be:

$$L=\frac{1}{2}m\left({\dot{r}}^2+r^2{\dot{\theta}}^2\right)-mgr\sin{\theta} \ \ \ \ (1)$$

As we see the Lagrangian is a function of all the coordinates: $L(r,\theta, \dot{r}, \dot{\theta})$

However still the quantity (linear momentum) has to be conserved. Since the coordinate system is just an arbitrary choice.

$$x=r\cos\theta$$

$$ \dot x = \dot r\ \cos\theta-r \dot \theta\ \sin \theta$$

$$\rightarrow p_x=m\dot x\ =m(\dot r\ \cos \theta-r\dot \theta\ \sin \theta\ )$$

My question:

What can you do to equation (1) to check if there is a cyclic coordinate? Is there something you can do to automatically churn out a cyclic coordinate?

Qmechanic
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bananenheld
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  • A related question is how to pick a useful (i.e. simplifying) coordinate specification in general relativity. I think there is no universal good way but answers here may offer some tips. In GR you have Killing's equation which offers some help. – Andrew Steane Aug 09 '23 at 11:33
  • Is this unsolvable by a simple equation? More like you just have to be lucky or guess based on intuition? That would be frustrating – bananenheld Aug 09 '23 at 11:44
  • Yes I think it is all about skillfull guess-work but I hope to see some answers here nonetheless. – Andrew Steane Aug 09 '23 at 11:59
  • The general approach is to start with a vector field $X$ on the base configuration manifold, lift it to a vector field $\xi$ on the tangent bundle, and try to solve the equation $\mathcal{L}_XL=0$ for $\xi$ (i.e see if the Lie derivative of $L$ along $\xi$ vanishes). If you find a solution, then it means the flow of $\xi$ preserves the Lagrangian, meaning you have a smooth symmetry of the system, and hence you get a conserved quantity by Noether’s theorem. Of course one needs to get a non-trivial $\xi$ to get a non-trivial conservation law. – peek-a-boo Aug 09 '23 at 12:32
  • Possible duplicates: https://physics.stackexchange.com/q/206355/2451 , https://physics.stackexchange.com/q/295077/2451 and links therein. – Qmechanic Aug 09 '23 at 15:03

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