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This isn't the time dilation aka rate change, but rather due to perspective change, where is Sam looking on Sally's worldline?

For example, imagine Sam is 1000 lightyears from Sally and Sally is receding at 0.1 the speed of light when Sam instantly accelerates to 0.5 the speed of light toward Sally. What equation describes what Sam observes regarding the time jump reflected on Sally's watch?

Also, are there any good physics GitHub repos that do a good job of modeling this stuff?

Qmechanic
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    This is most commonly posed with a distance of about a million light years. It is the Andromeda Paradox aka Rietdijk–Putnam argument. It is the reason people speak of the block universe. See What is time, does it flow, and if so what defines its direction? – mmesser314 Jan 22 '24 at 15:04
  • From Sam's perspective Sally won't know anything about Sam's change of velocity for over a thousand years. Sam will notice an immediate Doppler change in Sally's time keeping signal, but it has absolutely nothing to do with Sally's actual relative velocity. It only tells him about Sally's relative velocity 1000 years ago. If you want to model this, then you have to work with the Poincare transformation and Doppler effect and you have to keep a history of the past of every source. – FlatterMann Jan 22 '24 at 15:24

2 Answers2

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The equation for the relativistic Doppler effect is: $$ f_r = f_s \sqrt{\frac{1-v_s/c}{1+v_s/c}}$$ where $f_s$ is the frequency of the source and $v_s$ and $f_r$ are the velocity of the source and the frequency as measured by the receiver. The observed frequency is basically the observed tick rate of a distant clock.

In Sam's case he sees Sally as going away at 0.1c so he measures her clock to slower than his clock by a factor of $ f_r = f_s \sqrt{\frac{1-0.1}{1+0.1}} \approx 0.9045340 \ f_s $.

Sally also measures Sam to be moving away at 0.1c and so she also measures Sam's clock to be ticking slower by the same factor.

What equation describes what Sam observes regarding the time jump reflected on Sally's watch?

There is no "jump" as such. If Sam sees 3:30 PM on Sally's watch and instantly accelerates to 0.5c, he will still see 3:30 PM on Sally's watch immediately after the boost. What does change is the rate at which he sees Sally's clock tick at before and after the boost. Now Sam effectively sees Sally velocity as 0.1 - 0.5 = -0.4c, i.e. he Sally coming towards him now. The tick rate of Sally's watch that Sam sees after the boost is $ f_r = f_s \sqrt{\frac{1+0.4}{1-0.4}} \approx 1.52753 \ f_s $. To him, Sally's watch instantly appears to be ticking significantly faster than his own watch after the boost. Sally on the other hand will not see a change in Sam's tick rate for another 1000 years due to the light travel travel distance, but eventually she will also see Sam's watch tick faster by the same factor.

Because they are both travelling towards each other they will eventually pass each other and after they pass they will once again see each other watches ticking slower than their own watches, but this time by a factor of $ f_r = f_s \sqrt{\frac{1-0.4}{1+0.4}} \approx 0.654654 f_s$.

Twins Paradox Calculation:

In the comments the OP asked how this applies to the twins paradox. Here is a worked example:

Imagine Sam travels way from Earth at 0.8c for 10 years of Earth time. In that time he travels 8 light years. He sends signals every year according to his clock. The signal he sends on arriving at the turnaround does not get to Sally until 8 years after he arrives at the turnaround. Sally sees this turnaround signal after 18 years Earth time because it takes Sam 10 years to get to the turnaround and the signal takes 8 years to return. Due to the Doppler shift, Sally sees $ 18 * \sqrt{\frac{1-0.8}{1+0.8}} = 18/3 = 6 $ birthday signals from Sam on his outward journey.

For the last 2 years after the turnaround Sally sees $ 2 * \sqrt{\frac{1+0.8}{1-0.8}} = 2*3 = 6$ birthday signals so she sees Sam age by a total of 12 years during her 20 years waiting on Earth.

On arrival at the turnaround Sam has aged by 6 years by his clock. In that time he sees $ 6 * \sqrt{\frac{1-0.8}{1+0.8}} = 6/3 = 2 $ birthday signals from Sally. On the return trip he sees $ 6 * \sqrt{\frac{1+0.8}{1-0.8}} = 6 * 3 = 18 $ birthday signals from Sally. Altogether he sees 20 signals from Sally which agrees with the time Sally actually spent waiting on Earth.

The relativistic gamma factor at 0.8c is $1/\sqrt{1-0.8^2} = 10/8 \approx 1.6666$.
20 years/1.66 = 12 years in agreement with the earlier calculations.

KDP
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  • Thanks for the response. That seems to contradict the interpretation of the traveling Twin analysis. Take just the turnaround point, the traveling twin (who thinks he is at rest) observes the Earth twin hurdling away at 0.5 the speed of light. The traveling twin then instantly accelerates toward the Earth twin until he observes the Earth twin approaching at 0.5 the speed of light. In that case, there is a time jump regarding how the "traveling twin" perceives the watch on the Earth Twin. How is this case different if it is simply a subset context? Does my question make sense to you? – Daniel Needles Jan 22 '24 at 20:09
  • I guess you are referring to a diagram something like the one in the "Relativity Of Simultaneity" in the Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox#:~:text=If%20twins%20are%20born%20on,twin%20is%2010%20years%20old. on the twins paradox, where there is an apparent time jump. This is only what Sam imagines Sally's clock to be reading using spacetime calculations. It is not what he actually sees. The method in my answer is what he actually sees and there is no time jump. This is described further down under the "What it looks like: the relativistic Doppler shift" section. – KDP Jan 22 '24 at 20:35
  • Thanks! I'll take a deeper read later and see if I can "grok" your perspective. Thanks again! – Daniel Needles Jan 22 '24 at 21:07
  • I just added the twins calculation using the Doppler shift method to the end of my post, (but i used 0.8c as the numbers work out nicer) – KDP Jan 22 '24 at 21:17
  • OK. The steaming video view makes sense now. I think.

    As I understand it, if you draw a triangle showing the one-sided Earthbound and two-sided Traveling twins paths and superimpose a grid at a 45-degree angle showing the speed of causality aka video stream, it shows the "sped up" frames versus "slowed down" frames inequal and different between the twins, explaining the diff.

    One thing I don't quite get is why there is this method of calculation (aka streaming video) versus the other method that does show a "jump" at the turnaround point. What does this later method describe?

    – Daniel Needles Jan 24 '24 at 05:04
  • For clarity, I am talking about when Sally's clock jumps forward 13.1 years. If it doesn't reflect the video stream from Sally what does it actually reference given the video stream is the speed of causality? How can the speed of causality differ from the simultaneity calculation? – Daniel Needles Jan 25 '24 at 00:17
  • Never mind. I asked Claude.ai and referred the wiki article and this exchange. Claude.ai pointed out the obvious difference between a continuous signal being received versus evaluating simultaneity at a distance. Specifically, one was measuring a current incremental change while the other took the current incremental change and using multiples calculated the distant simultaneity event. Since the current incremental change differed from all incremental changes to that point, of course, the answers are different. Thanks again! – Daniel Needles Jan 25 '24 at 00:36
  • Hi Daniel. I have put a second answer that concentrates on the simultaneity method and also added a new section explaining why the the time jump occurs. Hopefully you can pick one of the answers as the correct answer. – KDP Jan 25 '24 at 01:09
  • Thanks! I get it now. I appreciate you iterating with me! – Daniel Needles Jan 25 '24 at 05:13
  • Does the lack of a tick mark mean you don't agree with either of the answers I gave? – KDP Jan 25 '24 at 13:49
  • No, unfortunately the site wouldn't let me "up tick" as this is my first time on the site. Looks like I need 15 rep points to "up tick" anything. Lol. – Daniel Needles Jan 26 '24 at 02:23
  • @DanielNeedles I think you can select a correct answer though ;) – KDP Jan 26 '24 at 05:11
  • Yes! Once I am long enough in the tooth, I'll go back and upvote. Lol. It really helped me to grok that the "calculated" simultaneity of distant events was related to "my" current trajectory through spacetime while the actual impact of events is felt by taking into account "my" entire curvy trajectory (aka worldline) across spacetime. An obvious idea, but something I hadn't considered and yet was hanging me up. In short, there is no instant fast forward experientially of the distant clock due to the changes being iterative, while the calculation of simultaneity is instantaneous. – Daniel Needles Jan 27 '24 at 19:25
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Addressing the Time Jump:

The equation for relativity of simultaneity is: $$ t' \frac{t-v x}{\sqrt{1-v^2/c^2}}$$

Here t' is the time seen on a clock at distance x that is moving at velocity v relative to the observer.

In Sam's case when he arrives at the turnaround, 6 years have passed on his clock so t=6. The turnaround is 8 lightyears from Earth but due to length contraction Sam considers the distance to be x = 8*6/10 = 4.8 lightyears.

Using the simultaneity equation Sam calculates the time of Sally's Earth clock to be $ \frac{6-0.8 * 4.8}{\sqrt{1-0.8^2}} = 3.6 $ years.

After the turn around he calculates the time on Sally's clock to instantly read $ \frac{6+0.8 * 4.8}{\sqrt{1-0.8^2}} = 16.4 $ years. This is the time 'jump'. Sally's clock has instantly jumped forward by 12.8 years! This is not what he actually sees and is not physical. It is an artifact of Sam suddenly switching reference frames and it is normal for observers in different reference frames to measure things differently.

On his return trip he sees Sally's clock advance a further 3.6 years making a total of 20 years on Sally's clock as expected.

Why the time jump occurs.

Imagine Sam has very long spaceship. In fact it is so long, that even when the front of the ship arrives at the turnaround point 8 light years away, the back of the spaceship is just passing the Earth. Now initially Sam had clocks synchronised in his moving rocket, but to Sally on Earth, the clock at the back appears to be much further advanced in time than the clock at the front of Sam's ship. Now Sam instantly reverses the the ship to return to Earth.

Here is the key point: Clocks do not re-synchronise themselves when a reference frame changes velocity. Sam has to have someone at the back adjust the rear clock to make it synchronised to the front clock. Lets say it is Betty (at the back)'s job to do this. She retards her clock manually by 12.8 years to re-synchronise with Sam's clock. Betty is right next to Sally at this point, and Sally sees Betty reverse the clock by 12.8 years, so Sally is not surprised that there is is sudden time jump because it was done manually. Betty is not surprised that Sally's clock has instantly advanced by 12.8 years because she just adjusted the clock. Nothing mysterious happened. The jump is purely artificial book keeping artifact.

KDP
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