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Are they not supposed to be the same operator according to Schrödinger equation? $$ i\hbar\dfrac{\partial}{\partial t}\psi = H\left(\vec{r},-i\hbar\nabla,t\right)\psi $$

Apparently $[t,i\hbar\dfrac{\partial}{\partial t}] = i\hbar$, while $[t,H] = 0$

Qmechanic
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K. Pull
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    They are not the same operators. Eg. See this SE post. – Physiker Jan 25 '24 at 07:35
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    Does this answer your question? Why isn't the time-derivative considered an operator in quantum mechanics? And also time is no operator in standard QM (and QFT). – Tobias Fünke Jan 25 '24 at 08:35
  • I didn't know there was an entire rabbit hole of questions related to this one. They didn't show up on the browser when searching about commutation between t and H. I need to investigate more about relativistic theory since that's were the answer to my question should lie – K. Pull Jan 25 '24 at 08:58
  • It has nothing to do with relativistics. My comment is completely applicable in non-relativistic QM and is a consequence of the mathematical formalism. – Tobias Fünke Jan 25 '24 at 09:01
  • @K.Pull Those questions are certainly related to yours. But I think your observation is new and it makes perfect sense. – lcv Jan 25 '24 at 09:01
  • Right, Tobias. I was thinking that time "should" be an operator, and that such an idea seems not to have a place in nonrelativistic theory (according to various links). Even if standard qft rejects position and time as operators, perhaps one could introduce a different math scheme where they were such. I'm beginning to question whether energy should be bounded, as that seems to be the "physical" argument against this idea – K. Pull Jan 25 '24 at 09:13
  • To the moderators: I've looked at all the questions of which this one is considered a duplicate. Although I perfectly agree that the question is related to the problem of considering time as an operator, the explicit comment about the commutator was not brought up in any of those questions. On the other hand I believe that the apparent contradiction brought up by the OP is natural and its solution is important. – lcv Jan 25 '24 at 12:30
  • @lcv What do you mean? There is no commutator on the Hilbert space. Both expressions are meaningless (if the identity operator of the Hilbert space on the RHS of the first commutator is assumed). The underlying error has been discussed in several posts already, hence the close reason. It does not matter if this question asks something which was not asked before, because the problem can be resolved with the exact same answers as the other problems could. – Tobias Fünke Jan 25 '24 at 13:28

2 Answers2

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The origin of this confusion stems from the fact that in (standard) quantum mechanics, time is actually not an operator. Rather, time is just a real variable.

The way time enters in QM is, for example in case of a time-independent Hamiltonian, such that the evolution operator is

$$ U(t) = e^{-i t H}.$$

So you see, we never compute the eigenvalues of "time" or things like that.

In QM as we know it now, there is an asymmetry between time and space. An asymmetry that, according to special relativity should not be there.

A lot of efforts are put nowadays in trying to level this asymmetry (quantum gravity, etc.) but this is another story.

Let me now come to the mathy details. Consider a situation where the Hilbert space of a particle is $L^2(\mathbb{R}^3)$. So here $\mathbb{R}^3$ is the allowed (configuration) space. So you see that

$$ \frac{\partial}{\partial t} $$

is not an operator in the Hilbert space. Of course you can consider $t$ as the multiplication operator by $t$ in some other space, and in this space acts also the time derivative. In this space $[t,\partial_t]=1$. But the Hamiltonian is an operator in another space and you cannot even consider the commutator between objects living in different spaces. The way you can make sense of your last equation

$$[t,H]$$

is to consider time simply as a variable. So effectively in the above $t$ stands for $t \mathrm{id}$ where $\mathrm{id}$ is the identity in the Hilbert space (where $H$) lives. Clearly then the result is zero.

lcv
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  • Could we extend the configuration space to $R^4$? – K. Pull Jan 25 '24 at 09:22
  • Here we are not trying to unify quantum mechanics with relativity and solve the deepest problem of current physics :). Having said that your observation is reasonable. – lcv Jan 25 '24 at 09:32
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Your question is surprisingly multi-faceted. @lcv did a good job addressing the main part. I wanted to touch upon one other aspect that I hope doesn't go unmissed.

Are they not supposed to be the same operator according to Schrödinger equation?

Definitely not.

An example can make this very clear: consider the spatial representation of the Schrodinger equation with no potential. It says

$$ i\hbar\frac{\partial}{\partial t} \psi = -\frac{\hbar^{2}}{2m}\frac{\partial^{2}}{\partial x^{2}}\psi. $$

This equation is true, but from this do we say that the operators $i\hbar\frac{\partial}{\partial t}$ and $-\frac{\hbar^{2}}{2m}\frac{\partial^{2}}{\partial x^{2}}$ are the same operator? I think you would agree the answer is very clearly no.

In fact, if the answer were yes, the equation would be completely meaningless, because it'd be tautological.

A non-trivial or meaningful equation takes two different operators $\hat{A}, \hat{B}$ and identifies a class $U$ of functions $u\in U$ for which applying $\hat{A}$ to $u$ and $\hat{B}$ to $u$ gives the same result $v$. We say that the functions for which this happens "solve the differential equation" and the functions for which this doesn't happen "do not solve the differential equation." The set of latter functions should be nonempty or else your equation isn't saying anything because everything solves it.


Regarding the main part of your question, I would challenge you to start with the Schrodinger equation

$$ i\hbar\frac{\partial}{\partial t} |\psi(t)\rangle = \hat{H}|\psi(t)\rangle $$

and try to derive a mathematical contradiction from the facts $[\hat{H}, t] = 0$ and $[\frac{\partial}{\partial t}, t]\ne 0$ (where $t$ is a scalar). For example, try multiplying both sides of the equation by $t$ and see where you go with it. I claim you won't be able to derive any contradiction if you are careful enough, but the attempts nonetheless will illuminate what is going.

  • OK, I will write up the contradiction which I thought of while writing my question. Let $\psi = t\phi$. If $\psi$ is a Schrödinger solution, then $i\hbar(\phi+t\dot{\phi}) = Ht\phi$. Now, if $\phi$ is also a Schrödinger solution, one concludes that $\phi = 0$.

    Guess that I made a mistake when assuming that $\phi$ was also a Schrödinger solution? I thought for a moment that the Schrödinger equation gave the time evolution for any function whatever.

    – K. Pull Jan 25 '24 at 09:31
  • @K.Pull Right. If $\psi$ is a Schrodinger solution, $\phi = \psi/t$ is not necessarily a Schrodinger solution. It's just some other function you defined. – Maximal Ideal Jan 25 '24 at 09:41