6

I'm trying to find sufficient additional conditions to derive Coulomb equation for the electric field generated by a steady point charge in free space from Maxwell equations in said conditions.

I know that a way to do this is assuming that the solution of Maxwell equations must have spherical symmetry due to the disposition of charges (a single point charge infact) having such a degree of symmetry.

The thing is, how can I prove that the solution of maxwell equations has to be symmetrical if I don't know in advance the equation of the electric field? And if the answer is "because the space is isotropic", how can I mathematically write such a condition?

Infact, if I consider Maxwell's equations (I write just the first two for the case we are considering) I get

\begin{align} \int_{\partial \Omega} E \cdot dS &= \delta(\Omega)q \\ \int_\gamma E \cdot ds =& 0 \quad \text{if} \quad \partial\gamma=\emptyset \end{align}

($\delta$ is $1$ if the carge is inside of $\Omega$, $0$ if it is outside and $q$ is the value of the point charge) so if $E$ solves them, also $E+K$ does for every constant field $K$.

I get that space should not "choose" any direction for $K$, but how to mathematically state it? There is clearly something missing here.

I thought of adding as a condition that

\begin{equation} \lim_{|x|\to +\infty} E = 0 \end{equation}

and this infact eliminates the possibility of adding a costant field, but I think I'm far from proving uniqueness of the solution.

Also another thing that bugged me, is the fact that it is not always the case that $\lim_{|x|\to +\infty} E = 0$, since if we impose this condition for the solution in the case of a homogeneus charged infinite plane, we don't get a solution at all.

Qmechanic
  • 201,751
  • Do you like this? At the very top of the page, starting with the charge density $\rho(\mathbf{r}) = q_i \delta(\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r}_i)$ https://basics.altervista.org/test/Physics/EM/first_experiences_revisited.html – basics Feb 20 '24 at 17:58
  • @basics Not really, since he exploits spherical symmetry as i said earlier, and since he uses the divergence theorem on a field that he doesn't know to be sufficiently smooth (since it is unknown), or maybe I'm missing something(?) – Lorenzo Vanni Feb 20 '24 at 18:05
  • @LorenzoVanni It is worth noting that $\vec E(\vec r)$ is continuous except at the boundaries. – Albertus Magnus Feb 20 '24 at 18:26
  • @LorenzoVanni Maxwell's equations are based on Coulomb's law which in turn assumes spherical symmetry. – Albertus Magnus Feb 20 '24 at 18:30
  • Related: https://physics.stackexchange.com/q/38404/2451 and links therein. – Qmechanic Feb 20 '24 at 18:43
  • @basics also he uses the dirac's delta notation, so what he is actually doing (if I understeand correctly) is considering a limit in the distribution, it is not obvious however that the solution converges to what we are asking for. – Lorenzo Vanni Feb 20 '24 at 19:02
  • @AlbertusMagnus continuity is not enough to use divergence theorem (I'm not shure what you are pointing at), also it is not obvious that solutions of those equations (in integral form) is continuous, so if one assumes it, he should back up those assumptions with the uniqueness of the solution I think(?) – Lorenzo Vanni Feb 20 '24 at 19:06
  • @AlbertusMagnus Well Maxwell equations per se do not seem to have that degree of symmetry if one does not assumes it, as I showed, so I was asking what is the correct way mathematically speaking to assume it. – Lorenzo Vanni Feb 20 '24 at 19:08
  • @LorenzoVanni I see your point better now, and your concerns are certainly merited. I would retract my answer, only it seems that there are interesting comments that further the discussion, so I should perhaps leave for the benefit of the community? – Albertus Magnus Feb 20 '24 at 20:28
  • Well an answer can't hurt, maybe edit it to adapt it to the discussion. – Lorenzo Vanni Feb 20 '24 at 20:44
  • Applying Gauss law (one of the Maxwell equations) to a point charge is a homework/textbook problem. – Roger V. Feb 21 '24 at 13:17
  • 1
    @RogerV. I know, and I know how to do it, my question is really different. – Lorenzo Vanni Feb 21 '24 at 13:22
  • I suspect $\lim_{x\rightarrow\infty}E=0$ is actually all you need, but I'm not sure how to prove it. There are many terms that solve the Laplace equation other than a constant field, but all of them go to infinity in at least one direction. For example, consider $\Phi=z^2-x^2/2-y^2-2$, or $\Phi=z^3-(3/2)(zx^2+zy^2)$. (of course take the gradient to get $E$) – AXensen Feb 21 '24 at 18:11
  • 2
    Regarding why spherical symmetry is justified, the answer is that it follows by the symmetry of the equations (including the delta source, which is ‘clearly’ symmetric) and the fact that the initial and boundary conditions are symmetric. There are various well-posedness theorems for Maxwell’s equations (which are really a coupled system of evolution equations) which you’ll find once you start studying PDEs proper. Anyway, see Formalizing the arguments of symmetry for some of these details. – peek-a-boo Feb 21 '24 at 18:28
  • 1
    ^ there I pretty much restricted myself to talk about smooth stuff, but the Dirac delta is obviously not smooth; it’s a distribution, but similar arguments work (once you have precise definitions in place for what distributions, pullback of distributions etc are). You’re worried about infinite charge distributions not giving $E\to 0$ at infinity, and you’re right; but the thing is that is not the right boundary condition. The ultimate answer of whether a collection of initial and boundary conditions are ‘good’/‘correct’ is whether the resulting system is well-posed. – peek-a-boo Feb 21 '24 at 18:29
  • 1
    It is not a “symmetry of the space” that is required, it is a symmetry of the charge distribution, which implies a symmetry of the electric field it creates. See my answer below where no fancy functions are used, just that essential argument. – Ben H Feb 21 '24 at 21:19
  • The OP means the Coulomb law, not the ‘Coulomb equation’. – my2cts Feb 21 '24 at 22:07

6 Answers6

7

I'd like to point out that Maxwell's equations permit static divergence-free and curl-free background solutions that are more general than just a constant E-field, namely: $$\vec E=a_x(b_y+a_yy)(b_z+a_zz)\hat x + a_y(b_x+a_xx)(b_z+a_zz)\hat y + a_z(b_x+a_xx)(b_y+a_yy)\hat z $$ where $a_i$ and $b_i$ are constants. We cannot mathematically show that these solutions aren't "real." A common feature of such solutions though is that $\lVert \vec E\rVert$ does not decay to zero as $\vec r \to \infty$. This is a bit disconcerting (worse, some of the solutions blow up at infinity), and we do not observe such background fields, so it is safe to assume they don't exist.

I would also note that infinite charge distributions are rather pathological. In dealing with these, we can either "zoom out" far enough that they do not extend to infinity, or impose reasonable assumptions of symmetry (e.g. $\lVert\vec E\rVert$ being the same on either side of an infinite charged sheet).

hft
  • 19,536
Puk
  • 13,526
  • 1
  • 22
  • 42
  • So is there an additional condition to enshure uniqueness of the solution and rule out all these "unreal" solutions? Also, I get that infinite distributions of charges are pathological from a physical prospective, but they are just fine from a mathematical point of view, so I would expect a mathematical theory capable of handling these things, am I wrong here? – Lorenzo Vanni Feb 20 '24 at 19:28
  • 2
    Keep in mind that Maxwell's equations are a mathematical model of electromagnetism, motivated by experiments and with the aim of accurately predicting their results. We can only rule out these background solutions using the fact that we don't detect them in experiments, or perhaps by arguing that a successful model ought to produce solutions that have certain symmetry properties. Mathematically valid solutions may not be physical, nor may hypothetical infinite charge distributions. – Puk Feb 20 '24 at 19:38
  • well indeed, but to say that we have to manually rule out these solutions, is basically to say that the model we are using is not sufficient to provide unique solutions, and from the mathematical point of view is quite catastrofic. That's why I was hoping to find some conditions to enshure uniqueness. – Lorenzo Vanni Feb 20 '24 at 20:00
  • 2
    Most physicists would consider $\lVert \vec E \rVert \to 0$ as $\vec r \to 0$ a simple and reasonable condition to impose on the solution for a finite charge distribution, and it does ensure uniqueness. Infinite distributions can be treated as I explain above. There is no catastrophe in terms of the ability of Maxwell's equations to explain and predict physical phenomena. If you are interested in the problem from a purely mathematical point of view, Math SE might be a more suitable place for your question. – Puk Feb 20 '24 at 20:07
  • Do you know by any chance some source with the proof of the fact that assuming the electric field going to zero at infinity enshures uniqueness? – Lorenzo Vanni Feb 20 '24 at 20:24
  • 1
    @LorenzoVanni The result you seek follows from Helmholtz's theorem, you can start there. – Puk Feb 20 '24 at 20:27
5

From empirical observations, we have reasons to believe that our universe obeys the symmetries of spacetime being homogeneous and isotropic and parity symmetric. The Maxwell's equations are also homogeneous, isotropic and parity symmetric.

However, these are not at all sufficient to show that the solutions to Maxwell's equations are symmetric in any way. This is because you can easily have a non-symmetric distribution of charges, and immediately the solutions will also fail to have symmetry.

Thus, if you want to obtain Coulomb's Law, you have to consider a spherically symmetric charge distribution. Only in that case can you put in some mathematics to prove that the solutions are also symmetric. To that end, you use polar coördinates and show that the derivative of the charge distribution is zero along the angular coördinates. Then you can express the vectors generally, and then derive that the solution also has to have zero components in those angular directions.

You were also confused as to how to deal with, say, uniformly charged infinite plate. For ease of derivation, you should apply Helmholtz theorem in the general case of having non-trivial boundary conditions at infinity. It says that a vector field can always be decomposed to a purely gradient part, a purely curl part, and a part that satisfies the boundary conditions at infinity. You should also use this for the solution in general, because this means to work with potentials, and that is always much less work to do than to solve for vectors directly.

Finally, we should give an example of something failing the symmetries in a totally different way. It is known that the weak interaction happens to be maximally violating parity symmetry. That means that, if we want to derive the fields corresponding to the weak interaction, then we cannot use parity symmetry to assert that the fields have to be spherically symmetric. That is, consider a perfectly spherical conducting shell with charge $Q$ on it, we can derive that the electric field outside of it is spherically symmetric by first considering a randomly chosen point to have a randomly pointing electric vector. With one rotation, we can move this considered point to hover above the North pole, again that defines a new direction in which it is pointing towards. Usually, at this step, we would invoke mirror symmetry about a vertical plane and conclude that if there was any component that is not radial, then the mirror symmetry will cancel it out. This is how we can assert that the electric field has to be purely spherically symmetric, and that means that only the radial component is left.

However, if in some weird way, we manage to get an equivalent thing for weak charges, then we cannot invoke the mirror symmetry step. That is still ok, because the mirror symmetry step is not necessary. We can simply apply a rotation around the North-South axis and also get the same result.

It is thus interesting to note that a single point charge electron will fail this. This is because there is a preferred z-axis for the electron because the electron has spin, which thus picks out a direction along which its spin has an eigenvalue of either along or against that direction. Because of that, the weak interaction will obey only cylindrical symmetry, and then the mirror symmetry cannot be circumvented by the other rotation. Hence, the weak interaction will not obey an equivalent of Coulomb's Law.

  • 1
    Excellent point! When one chooses $\rho(\vec r)=q\delta(\vec r)$ for a charge distribution, then they have already assumed spherical symmetry in the form of the charge's distribution in space. – Albertus Magnus Feb 20 '24 at 18:23
  • I'm not saying that space is not isotropic, I'm rather asking of a condition to put it in mathematically. You however say that using poolar coordinates I can show that the solution is symmetric, but I feel we still miss something, since I indeed considered a symmetric distribution of charges, but I already found solutions that don't have such degree of symmetry, so my question was, what is the mathematical condition I'm missing that enables us to obtain uniqueness of the solution? – Lorenzo Vanni Feb 20 '24 at 19:22
  • 1
    @LorenzoVanni then you have to specifically ask a question on your particular derivation. Because we cannot know what it is you "found" as solutions that should have been discarded. If you did it correctly, you should have the unique solution. – naturallyInconsistent Feb 20 '24 at 20:04
  • I'm sorry, I wasn't clear, I'm referring to what i wrote in my question. As I said, clearly given a point charge (that is a symmetric distribution), the field $E$ given by Coulomb's law solves Maxwell's equations, but also does every field $E+K$ where $K$ is a constant field. This problem goes away if we assume spherical symmetry of the solution (not of the distribution), so I was asking how to prove that such a configuration produce a symmetric field, and if the answer is "by space isotropy" how to put space isotropy in mathematical therms. – Lorenzo Vanni Feb 20 '24 at 20:13
  • constant field K breaks space isotropy because, while it respects $\varphi$ symmetry if we align z axis with K, it will fail to have $\vartheta$ symmetry. 2) Constant field breaks the boundary condition at infinity if you wanted Coulomb's Law, which is that the field should vanish at infinity (and at the correct rate, no faster, no slower).
  • – naturallyInconsistent Feb 20 '24 at 20:32
  • @naturallyInconsistent Again, I know it breaks isotropy, that's why I'm concerned, there are solutions to the Maxwell's equations that do not respect isotropy, hence we have to put some mathematical condition that enshure isotropy. As I said, we can require the field going to zero to rule out those silly examples of nonuniqueness, also other people said that such a condition implies uniqueness, that's good exept for those cases where requiring such a condition rules out the only solutions avaliable (e.g. uniformly charged infinite plane), so I'm asking if there is a good general condition. – Lorenzo Vanni Feb 20 '24 at 21:45
  • But I also wrote in my answer that you have to know what the boundary conditions are. i.e. I already answered this part. – naturallyInconsistent Feb 20 '24 at 21:51
  • Sorry, are you referring to the boundary condition at infinity $|E| \to 0$? As I said in that case, I'm concerned since it is not a generally true fact. I'm searching for a generally true condition. That's the boundary condition you are referring now? – Lorenzo Vanni Feb 20 '24 at 22:01
  • No, I am saying that before you started the problem, you needed to know what the boundary conditions itself are. I did not assume that |E|->0; when solving for the fields you need to know what the boundary conditions are before you can start getting the answers. That is what is generally true. @LorenzoVanni – naturallyInconsistent Feb 20 '24 at 22:11
  • @naturallyInconsistent so there isn't a general boundary condition that enshure uniqueness? And how am I supposed to find those conditions without knowing the solution? – Lorenzo Vanni Feb 20 '24 at 22:18
  • If you have a finite number of charges, the natural boundary condition is that at infinity the field decays to zero. If you have an infinite line, the natural boundary condition is that it decays radially but has no field in along its length. If you have an infinite plane, you know the answer. There are basically no other interesting cases. – naturallyInconsistent Feb 20 '24 at 22:42