30

Frequently I see the expression $$F = \frac{dp}{dt} = \frac{d}{dt}(mv) = \frac{dm}{dt}v + ma,$$ which can be applied to variable mass systems.

But I'm wondering if this derivation is correct, because the second law of Newton is formulated for point masses.

Furthermore if i change the inertial frame of reference, only $v$ on the right side of the formula $F = \frac{dm}{dt}v+ma$ will change, meaning that $F$ would be dependent of the frame of reference, which (according to me) can't be true.

I realize there exists a formula for varying mass systems, that looks quite familiar to this one, but isn't exactly the same, because the $v$ on the right side is there the relative velocity of mass expulsed/accreted. The derivation of that formula is also rather different from this one.

So my question is: is this formula, that I frequently encounter in syllabi and books, correct? Where lies my mistake.

Qmechanic
  • 201,751
yarnamc
  • 1,201

5 Answers5

30

So my question is: is this formula, that I frequently encounter in syllabi and books, correct? Where lies my mistake.

The equation and the subsequent expression of the derivative $$\mathbf F_{ext} = \frac{d\mathbf p}{dt} = \frac{d}{dt}(m\mathbf v) = \frac{dm}{dt}\mathbf v + m\mathbf a,~~~(1)$$

are based on the erroneous idea that the equation

$$ \mathbf F_{ext} = \frac{d\mathbf p}{dt}~~~(2) $$

is valid for systems that lose or gain mass (where $\mathbf F_{ext}$ is external force on the system and $\mathbf p$ is momentum of the system.

The system in this context is often a rocket without the expelled gases far away. Obviously such system has variable mass. More generally, we can consider any mass system in a specified well-delimited control volume as the subject for which we seek the equation of motion.

The above idea keeps around (probably) in part because of some special relativity texts saying $\mathbf F_{ext} = d\mathbf p/dt$ is more general than $\mathbf F_{ext} = m\mathbf a$ because the former is valid equation for relativistic particles.

But in non-relativistic mechanics this equation is valid only when the system does not lose or gain parts.

In the subtler case where the system of interest (inside the control volume) does acquire or lose material parts (like a rocket), the equation (2) is no longer valid. An easy way to see this is that this equation is not Galilei-invariant: when written in different frame, the external force does not change, but the right-hand side does.

However, a different and correct equation for $\mathbf p$ (a variable-mass system's momentum) may be derived from Newton's laws when applied to each particle the system is made of 1:

$$ \mathbf F_{ext} + \mathbf F_{parts~outside} = \frac{d\mathbf p}{dt} + \frac{d\mathbf p_{lost}}{dt}~~~(4). $$

1) This can be done because each particle obeys Newton's law $\mathbf F= m\mathbf a$, as it does not lose or gain parts. One way to derive this equation goes like this.
Let us use convention where $\mathbf F_{a}$ means force due to body $a$ on something, $\mathbf F_{-b}$ means force acting on body $b$ due to something, and $\mathbf F_{a,-b}$ means force due to body $a$ acting on the body $b$.
It is easy to see that at time $t$ $$ \sum_{i\in V(t)} \mathbf{F}_{ext,-i} + \sum_{i \in V(t)} \mathbf F_{parts~outside,-i} = \sum_{i\in V(t)} m_i \mathbf a_i.~~~(a) $$ We would like to express this without summing over index $i$, using only quantities referring to the system inside and outside as a whole.
Let $\mathbf p$ be momentum inside the control volume $V$. This changes in time for two reasons:
1. particles that stay inside change their momentum
2. some particle leave or come in the control volume

So we can write $$ \frac{d\mathbf p}{dt} = \sum_{i\in V} m_i \mathbf a_i - \frac{d\mathbf p_{lost}}{dt}~~~(b) $$
where $d\mathbf p_{lost}$ is momentum lost from the control volume due to particles leaving, per time $dt$).
Comparing $(a),(b)$ we see that the sum equation can be expressed more over $i$ can be removed resulting equation of motion for the system (in the control volume) can be written more concisely as $$ \mathbf F_{ext} + \mathbf F_{parts~outside} = \frac{d\mathbf p}{dt} + \frac{d\mathbf p_{lost}}{dt} $$ which is the equation (4).

In case of mass leaving the system (a rocket), we can write this in an easier-to-remember way $$ \mathbf F_{ext} + \mathbf F_{parts~outside} - \frac{d\mathbf p_{lost}}{dt} = \frac{d\mathbf p}{dt}~~~(5). $$

When we apply this to a rocket, we can see that momentum of the rocket changes due to 1) external force, 2) force of the exhaust gases acting back on the rocket, but decreased by momentum lost from the rocket per unit time (due to exhaust gas leaving the system).

Although more general, this is somewhat foreign to the engineering viewpoint on rockets, because for the purpose of travel, rather than in momentum of the rocket, we are interested in its velocity.

In the simplest case where the lost particles all leave in direction same or opposite to the body velocity $\mathbf v$ (idealized rocket), this can be further simplified, as is common in textbooks. Let the boundary of the control volume be far from the rocket, so that velocity of particles crossing the boundary (relatively to the rocket) is constant $\mathbf{c}$, and $\mathbf{F}_{parts}$ acting back on the system in the control volume is negligible (the exhaust gas is rarified). Then the lost momentum per unit time is

$$ \frac{d\mathbf{p}_{lost}}{dt} = - \frac{dm}{dt}(\mathbf v+\mathbf c)~~~(6) $$ and the equation of motion simplifies into

$$ \mathbf{F}_{ext} + \frac{dm}{dt} \mathbf c = m\frac{d\mathbf{v}}{dt}.~~~(7) $$ It is important to realize also that $\mathbf v$ is not velocity of center of mass of the system, but is defined as $\mathbf p/m$ where $\mathbf p$ and $m$ are momentum and mass inside the control volume. The necessity of this distinction is best seen from this example: let the body have constant velocity $\mathbf v$, but let the control volume shrink so that less and less of the body is inside. Center of mass of the control volume has different velocity from $\mathbf v$, in fact it accelerates due to moving boundary of the control volume. However, velocity of the material particles does not change at all.

  • 4
    +1. It might be worth mentioning that using $\mathbf F = \frac{d \mathbf p}{dt}$ would mean that force becomes a frame-dependent quantity in a variable mass system. Most people who work with variable mass systems see this as anathema and use $\mathbf F = m\mathbf a$ instead. – David Hammen Oct 23 '14 at 20:02
  • Indeed, only the meaning of $\mathbf a$ may be a little obscure in some cases, like when mass is removed from the body while both external and parts' force vanishes - the center of mass may accelerate, but clearly $\mathbf a$ has to be zero. This is because $\mathbf a$ is not acceleration of the center of mass anymore (this is valid only for constant mass cases), but is defined as $\mathbf p/m$. – Ján Lalinský Oct 23 '14 at 20:16
  • Correction: $\mathbf a$ is defined as $\frac{d}{dt}(\mathbf p/m)$. – Ján Lalinský Nov 14 '18 at 13:02
  • @JánLalinský: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1807.06042.pdf contradicts your 1st paragraph. – claws Jan 10 '20 at 09:54
  • 2
    @claws, I don't think so, because in the paper author argues for validity of the equation $\dot{\mathbf F}=\dot{\mathbf p}$ where $\mathbf{F}$ is a nonstandard, Galilei variant "force" that includes not only external force, but also weird term $\dot{m}\mathbf u$ that depends on the chosen inertial frame of reference. He does not argue for the equation $\mathbf F_{ext} = \dot{\mathbf p}$. The paper is misguided in its direction, the term $\dot{m}\mathbf u$ is not a physical force. – Ján Lalinský Jan 10 '20 at 20:55
  • @JánLalinský Why most textbooks still refer as: $$F=\frac{dp}{dt}$$ It doesn't make sense because this is equivalent to $$F=ma$$ – Antonios Sarikas Feb 09 '20 at 20:33
  • @JánLalinský I had a similar kind of doubt here https://physics.stackexchange.com/q/552481/113699....i read through all your answers regarding this issue... I was boggled that I was going on thinking along the lines that books who write it this way ( like Goldstein) are wrong but couldn't just believe that they can be wrong. Could you pls enlighten me on exact step where my logic to the question I linked above goes wrong ( maybe a comment). It would be great if I can clear all my doubts regarding these issues because I have been quite boggled recently as to what I am doing wrong in that ques – Shashaank May 17 '20 at 03:24
  • @JánLalinský I am essentially asking because as you say that the correct equation can be derived by considering the entire supersystem but I am trying to derive to by considering them as individual systems, then where am I going wrong. Am counting mass twice.. – Shashaank May 17 '20 at 03:30
  • The constant mass system under consideration in $\mathbf F_{ext} + \mathbf F_{parts} = \sum_k m_k \mathbf a_k$ is not the control volume, nor the super-system, but rather a system of particles entirely within the control volume at but not entirely in the control volume at + (since some particles in this system have crossed the boundary in time ). Might it be clearer to include a note on this, e.g. $(\mathbf{F}{parts} + \mathbf{F}{ext})dt =(d\mathbf{p}{lost} + \mathbf{p}{cv}(t+dt)) - \mathbf{p}{cv}(t) = d\mathbf{p}{cv} + d\mathbf{p}_{lost}$? – 13509 May 17 '20 at 12:00
  • 1
    @JamesWirth you're right that part wasn't very clear. I changed those sections, please read them again. However, note that the derivation I had in mind actually does not work with momentum of the whole super-system. The actual argument is application of Newton's laws to each individual particle, and then summing the equations for the relevant particles that form the system (with variable-mass). – Ján Lalinský May 17 '20 at 13:27
  • I see; thanks for the rewrite, it's a lot clearer now! I find it very interesting how there are many different ways of looking at the same Physics! – 13509 May 17 '20 at 14:45
11

You'll probably find the wikipedia article useful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable-mass_system

It is formulated so that $F+v_{rel} \frac{dm}{dt} = ma$, where $v_{rel}$ is the relative velocity of the mass being ejected to the center of mass of the body. This takes care of your question about reference frames, because $v$ will be the same in all frames. The term gets moved to the left side of the equation because $-v$ describes the velocity of the center of mass relative to the ejected matter.

John Alexiou
  • 38,341
Jold
  • 3,023
  • 1
  • 16
  • 22
8

You can only apply Newton's second law to closed systems. But, since you are applying second law to a open system, you are getting contradictory results. The correct procedure for solving variable mass system, is by calculating the change in momentum and then equating it to

    Force = (change in momentum)/small time interval in which change occurred.

Here is a article on it that you can find useful, apart from the wikipedia article. See, this website. http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Revision:Motion_With_Variable_Mass

  • Pratik, that website no longer exists. Do you know if it's available in a different location? – Matt Jun 11 '23 at 00:48
1

First, we should remove some misconceptions that are actually getting in the way of the discussion here. Newton's laws were not formulated for point masses! The very first two definitions in the Principia frame bodies as continua, irrespective of any distinction between composite versus elementary, and do so with the implied understanding that the same laws apply to a whole body as apply to each of its parts. It is for this reason that you also have the third law - as that is the key enabling condition that allows you to scale the first and second law up from a body's parts to the body as a whole.

Definition 1 states that the quantity of matter comprising a body (its "mass") is - what we would say in contemporary language - the integral of its density over its volume. In so stating, it asserts that mass is additive and (tacitly) that it is positive.

By "additivity" I will also be referring to the stronger sense where two bodies can occupy overlapping regions, such as with the mixing of fluids or the lodging of a soda straw into a tree trunk by a tornado.

Definition 2 associates each part of the body with a velocity, and states - as we would today say - that the quantity of motion of the body (its "momentum") is the integral of the product of the density and velocity over the volume of the body. This means that the momentum is also additive, and it also gives you a definition for the average velocity of a body and - by these means - the average position of a body, up to a constant of time integration. It tacitly states (by the context of subsequent discussion) that this constant (that is: the constant of integration of the time integral of the "quantity of motion") is also additive; specifically that mass-moment-at-a-fixed-time is additive.

This part-whole and upward-scalability approach, where no consideration is paid to "elementariness", in fact, might be seen as a precursor to the approach Wilson later adopted in Quantum Field Theory.

There is nothing said in Newton's formulation of his laws about point masses in any of this. The only assumption (tacitly) made, in carrying on to formulate the laws, is that a body has consistent contents - that its mass be constant. The assumption incurs no real loss of generality, since a body of variable mass can be treated as a component of a larger body of constant mass, where the choice of where to draw the dividing line between what comprises that body, versus what comprises the rest of the larger body it is contained in, is allowed to vary with time.

It might do well to review the reply I gave here Rocket Equation where I spell out the derivation in general terms. That's exactly the approach adopted there.

There's nothing wrong with continuing to assert $ = d/dt$, for a body with mass $m$ and momentum $$, as long as you understand that when the mass is variable, then $$ is no longer frame-independent. Under Galilean a boost by $$, the coordinates, coordinate differentials, velocity, partial derivative operators and moving time derivative transform as $$(,t) → ( - t, t), \quad (d,dt) → (d - dt, dt), \quad → - ,\\ \left(∇,\frac{∂}{∂t}\right) → \left(∇, \frac{∂}{∂t} + ·∇\right), \quad \frac{d}{dt} → \frac{d}{dt},$$ where $$ = (x, y, z), \quad ∇ = \left(\frac{∂}{∂x}, \frac{∂}{∂y}, \frac{∂}{∂z}\right), \quad \frac{d}{dt} = \frac{∂}{∂t} + ·∇. $$

This is what leads to the transport laws for continuua: $$m_Ω = \int_Ω ρ dV\quad⇒\quad\frac{dm_Ω}{dt} = \frac{d}{dt} \int_Ω ρ dV = \int_Ω \left(\frac{∂ρ}{∂t} + ∇·(ρ)\right) dV,$$ where the region $Ω$ comprising the body can be time-varying, where $ρ$ is the density within the region, $$ the associated velocity and $dV = dx∧dy∧dz$ is the volume 3-form. If the region follows the body's contents, then the mass is constant and that leads to the transport equation: $$\frac{∂ρ}{∂t} + ∇·(ρ) = 0.$$

Otherwise if the contents are not constant, then you're treating this as part of a larger body where the boundary of $Ω$ is allowed to have flow in and out. And that leads to the transport law for momentum: $$\frac{∂(ρ)}{∂t} + ∇·(ρ) = ,$$ where tensor-dyad notation is used, and the decomposition $ = ρ$ for (the additive) force density $$ into the product of mass density $ρ$ and force per unit mass $$ is frequently employed. As stated, it is not additive. Therefore, solely on consistency grounds, there needs to be an additional term $$ alongside the dyad $ρ$ that absorbs the non-additivity, thus leading to the modified equation $$\frac{∂(ρ)}{∂t} + ∇·(ρ + ) = .$$ The dyad $$ is then identified as the body's stress tensor. Thus, for two bodies with respective densities, velocities and stress tensors $\left(ρ_0, _0, _0\right)$ and $\left(ρ_1, _1, _1\right)$ occupying respective regions $Ω_0$ and $Ω_1$ - that may overlap - you can treat them as being part of one body within a region $Ω ⊇ Ω_0 ∪ Ω_1$, by just requiring $\text{supp }ρ_0 ⊆ Ω_0$ and $\text{supp }ρ_1 ⊆ Ω_1$ and writing $$ \int_{Ω_0} ρ_0 dV + \int_{Ω_1} ρ_1 dV = \int_Ω ρ dV,\\ \int_{Ω_0} ρ_0 _0 dV + \int_{Ω_1} ρ_1 _1 dV = \int_Ω ρ dV,\\ \frac{∂ρ_0}{∂t} + ∇·(ρ_0_0) + \frac{∂ρ_1}{∂t} + ∇·(ρ_1_1) = \frac{∂ρ}{∂t} + ∇·(ρ),\\ \frac{∂\left(ρ_0_0\right)}{∂t} + ∇·\left(ρ_0_0 + _0\right) + \frac{∂\left(ρ_1_1\right)}{∂t} + ∇·\left(ρ_1_1 + _1\right) = \frac{∂\left(ρ\right)}{∂t} + ∇·\left(ρ + \right),\\ _0 + _1 = , $$ then the additivity entails the following part-whole decompositions: $$ ρ_0 + ρ_1 = ρ ⇒ ρ = ρ_0 + ρ_1,\\ ρ_0_0 + ρ_1_1 = ρ ⇒ = \frac{ρ_0_0 + ρ_1_1}{ρ_0 + ρ_1},\\ ρ_0_0 + _0 + ρ_1_1 + _1 = ρ + ⇒ = _0 + _1 + \frac{ρ_0ρ_1}{ρ_0 + ρ_1}(_0 - _1)(_0 - _1),\\ _0 + _1 = ⇒ = _0 + _1. $$

If, on the other hand, you do not follow a body's contents, by adopting a velocity field whose flow does not go with the mass density, then continuity law for the mass will no longer be homogeneous, but will take the form $$\frac{∂ρ}{∂t} + ∇·(ρ) = μ.$$ That's equivalent to dividing a body into parts where the enclosing boundary may vary with time - in a way that cuts progressively across the body. Under transform, we have: $$\begin{align} \frac{∂ρ}{∂t} + ∇·(ρ) &→ \left(\frac{∂}{∂t} + ·∇\right)ρ + ∇·(ρ( - ))\\ &= \frac{∂ρ}{∂t} + ∇·(ρ),\\ \frac{∂(ρ)}{∂t} + ∇·(ρ + ) &→\left(\frac{∂}{∂t} + ·∇\right)(ρ( - )) + ∇·(ρ( - )( - ) + )\\ &= \frac{∂(ρ)}{∂t} + ∇·(ρ + ) - \left(\frac{∂ρ}{∂t} + ∇·(ρ) \right), \end{align}$$ thus $$μ → μ, \quad → - μ.$$

To make a boost-invariant out of $$ will then require associating the mass flux $μ$ with a momentum flux $$ and an associated velocity $_μ = /μ$. This is the rate at which the mass and momentum are passing through the boundary of the region $Ω$ associated with the body, due to the fact that the velocity field $$ is not following the body's mass flow. Then we can define a boost-invariant version $_0$ of $$ by $_0 = - $, with the transforms: $$_μ → _μ - , \quad → - μ, \quad _0 → _0.$$

Similarly, for the body, itself, we have the transform: $$\frac{dm}{dt} → \frac{dm}{dt}, \quad \frac{d}{dt} → \frac{d}{dt} - \frac{dm}{dt}\quad→\quad → - \frac{dm}{dt}.$$ So, associating a momentum flux $$ and velocity $_{\dot{m}}$ with the mass flux $dm/dt$, with $$ = \frac{dm}{dt}_{\dot{m}}, \quad _{\dot{m}} → _{\dot{m}} - , \quad → - \frac{dm}{dt},$$ we can define the boost-invariant force by: $$_0 = - .$$ The force law will then read: $$\frac{d}{dt} = = _0 + = _0 + \frac{dm}{dt}_{\dot{m}}\quad→\quad\frac{d}{dt} - _{\dot{m}}\frac{dm}{dt} = _0.$$

NinjaDarth
  • 1,944
0
  1. Whether a mass can be considered a point or not depends on the scale at which it is studied. The earth can be considered to be a point mass when we are studying its motion around the sun but not so when we are studying its own rotation. Newton's laws are applied to systems of many particles.

  2. Newton's second law says that the rate of change of momentum of a system is proportional to the applied force. We choose units in such a manner that the constant of proportionality is 1. With this definition, the equation $md\vec{v}/dt + \vec{v} dm/dt = \vec{F}$ makes sense with $\vec{v}$ being the velocity of the body in the same frame of reference in which other vectors are measured.

Amey Joshi
  • 2,235