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I’m reading this article for a straightforward derivation of the Hawking effect https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356129307_A_Pedagogical_Review_of_Black_Holes_Hawking_Radiation_and_the_Information_Paradox

The derivation looks at the quantum field in a Schwarzschild spacetime. Using the tortoise coordinates, it expands the field in a mode expansion. It then compares this to the mode expansion using Kruskal coordinates. This yields two different vacua $|0_{T}\rangle$ and $|0_{K}\rangle$. Writing out the tortoise creation/annihilating operators in terms of the Kruskal coordinates, we arrive at the bogoliubov transformation and taking $|\beta|^2$ yields the average number of particles the tortoise observer will see. My problem with this derivation is that the Schwarzschild spacetime is valid for any static spherical body. It is not excluded to just a black hole. And therefore, the entire derivation would apply to all spherical bodies. But of course, spherical bodies don’t have a thermal temperature for the mean number of particles, so what am I missing?

2 Answers2

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You are correct: there is no Hawking radiation for a general spherical body. The reason is subtle, although the reference you gave comes near it on p. 17: the field's state.

In the reference you provided, the author decides that the physical choice of vacuum is $|0_K\rangle$ because $|0_T\rangle$ has an unphysical build up of modes near the event horizon. This is not seem, so $|0_T\rangle$ is not physical and must be abandoned.

However, suppose that we have a planet instead of a black hole. Then we have two remarks:

  1. $|0_T\rangle$ doesn't have an unphysical build up of energy near the horizon, for the horizon literally does not exist (the solution near the "would-be-horizon" is an interior solution, not Schwarzschild)
  2. $|0_K\rangle$ has unphysical modes that go into the horizon, which literally does not exist. Hence $|0_K\rangle$ is not an acceptable state anymore.

This is the point in which the derivation fails. The physical states in a black hole spacetime and in a planet/star spacetime are different. If the state is different, the behavior is different, and hence we end up with no thermal effects.

To give a few more nomenclature, here are three of the main states considered in Schwarzschild spacetime:

  1. Hartle–Hawking vacuum: this is the vacuum associated with the Unruh effect in curved spacetime. This vacuum is compatible with the symmetries of Schwarzschild spacetime and it has no unphysical build ups of energy. It predicts a static observer hovering above the black hole will see particles coming from the black hole and from infinity with a thermal spectrum.
  2. Unruh vacuum: this is the vacuum associated with the Hawking effect (yes, the Unruh vacuum is associated with the Hawking effect, and the Hartle–Hawking vacuum with the Unruh effect). This vacuum is compatible with the symmetries of Schwarzschild spacetime and it an unphysical build up of energy near the white hole horizon. This is not an issue if you consider a black hole that formed out of a stellar collapse, in which case the white hole itself is unphysical. It predicts a static observer hovering above the black hole will see particles coming from the black hole but not from infinity with a thermal spectrum.
  3. Boulware vacuum: this is the vacuum in which static observers hovering at a constant distance don't see any particles. It has unphysical build ups of energy near the event horizon (I believe both in the black and white holes, if my memory is not failing me). This, of course, is not an issue if the spacetime has a planet or star that renders the horizons unphysical. This vacuum does not predict a static observer will see particles with a thermal spectrum coming from either the spherical object or from infinity.

Notice that the Unruh effect and the Hawking effect are physically different phenomena (as pointed out in Wald's QFTCS book). It is very common, however, to derive the Unruh effect in Schwarzschild spacetime and call it the "Hawking effect", although Hawking's original derivation was concerned with a completely different field state and hence has different predictions concerning what is observed.

For more information, I suggest checking out Chap. 5 of Wald's book. Everything I said in this answer is probably there somewhere.

  • I don’t see how that argument is relevant. The argument is about which vacuum has the lowest energy, but how does that imply we can’t use the bogoliubov transform? Even without an event horizon, we can still write out the tortoise operators in terms of the kruskal operators, and we will still get a thermal distribution, no?
  • –  Jan 20 '23 at 17:42
  • @Obama2020 The Bogoliubov transformation still holds. After all, it is merely a statement between the creation and annihilation operators as defined in two different ways, both of which are perfectly possible in a small body spacetime. However, to derive the Hawking effect you must compute the expectation value of the number operator. This time, you will need to do it in a different state, and hence the result will be different, leading not to a thermal spectrum, but rather to a vanishing result – Níckolas Alves Jan 20 '23 at 22:08
  • You can use the Bogoliubov transform, but there won't be a thermal distribution because the thermal distribution necessarily depends on the state of the field, which is now different – Níckolas Alves Jan 20 '23 at 22:09
  • Is there an explicit calculation of bogoliubov coefficients of a spherical object in schwartzchild space time that does not have a horizon? That would be useful –  Jan 21 '23 at 19:00
  • @Obama2020 The calculation of Bogoliubov coefficients is exactly the same as in your reference. The sole difference is that your reference eventually computes $\langle 0_K | \hat{N}\omega | 0_K \rangle$ while the computation on a spherical body spacetime would be forced to compute $\langle 0_T | \hat{N}\omega | 0_T \rangle$ instead. The Bogoliubov coefficients are exactly the same due to the argument you gave in the original post – Níckolas Alves Jan 21 '23 at 19:45
  • So you’re saying that the number (in tortoise coordinates) expectation value of the kruskal vacuum is computed because the kruskal vacuum would have the lowest energy state. This is because the modes don’t build up at horizon from kruskal coordinates. If there was a horizon, then lowest state would be tortoise vacuum, so we’d calculate expectation value of number operator in tortoise frame. –  Jan 21 '23 at 20:18
  • @Obama2020 Almost. In the presence of a horizon, the Kruskal vacuum is the physical one, because there is a build up of energy in the tortoise vacuum that makes it unphysical. However, without a horizon, the Kruskal vacuum is describing modes that come and go inside the horizon, which does not exist, and hence the Kruskal vacuum does not describe reality. In this case, the tortoise vacuum is the physical vacuum (there is no longer a build up of energy at the horizon because the horizon doesn't exist). – Níckolas Alves Jan 21 '23 at 20:25
  • Last question. How do we show mathematically that the field would yield an energy divergence/large amount of energy at the horizon in tortoise coordinates. Don’t both observers agree on the field? –  Jan 24 '23 at 19:26
  • @Obama2020 Both observers agree on the field. Both observers will agree that the field is problematic at the horizon. Notice that the issue is the tortoise vacuum, not tortoise coordinates. The vacuum does not depend on the observer or on coordinates, these are just used for convenience in defining the vacuum – Níckolas Alves Jan 24 '23 at 19:48
  • I don't really know of a simple argument to show that the Boulware vacuum (the "fancy name" of the tortoise vacuum) is singular at the horizon. It surely is singular because there are theorems guaranteeing uniqueness of nonsingular states on stationary spacetimes and the unique state for Schwarzschild spacetime is the Hartle-Hawking vacuum (the "Kruskal vacuum"), but I don't know of a reference that explicitly shows this in detail. The argument in your reference is probably the simplest one – Níckolas Alves Jan 24 '23 at 19:50
  • It is very important to remark that the state of the field does not depend on coordinates or on observers. The Boulware vacuum is singular at the event horizon for every observer, regardless of coordinate choices. – Níckolas Alves Jan 24 '23 at 19:51